200 mile Brake inspection

[Moland]

Well I live about 100 miles from where I purchased my 38fl in April. I took it out once to weight it and noticed that my truck was doing almost all the braking. There is a camping world within 20 miles that I was going to have them check the brakes and repack the bearings. This unit was on the sales lot for awhile and accordingly to what I remember reading even if just sitting the bearings should be repacked every 6 months. So my thinking is the dealer should of did this. So was this already a warranty violation.... Crossroads / lippert wouldn't pre authorize camping world to do this, but the dealer stated they would do it and if the manufacturer doesn't cover their cost they would. Noticed grease / oil on one wheel. Glad I didn't have to stop quick, guess they don't care about our safety either. Glad it's pretty to look at because after everything I read here I'm starting to have buyers remorse and have yet to use it. Looking forward to the rally.

[superduty glampers]

So that's why it takes so long to get into the dealer, there to busy repacking wheel bearings on all the Redwoods sitting on there lots, there asking 100k for.

[atom ant]

Remember, the manual says the bearings need inspected if you move it after it sits for 2 months, so some of those inventory units may be getting pulled apart more often the 6 months

[Moland]

Well I still thought that the dealer should at least check them prior to delivery which didn't occur. A seperate business actually does this for the dealer as they don't do anything with the axle assembly.

[atom ant]

Why would the Dealer care? If you drive it off the lot and it makes it 200 miles before the wheel falls off because of something that happened in transport - it's your dime anyway! The Dealer is off the hook!

[Moland]

I'd like to believe that there are still some dealers that try to do the right thing. I buy a car and within the warranty have never been denied getting something covered. So I'm sure I'm going to be disappointed in the months to come but I'm at least giving the dealer a chance to prove me wrong. Now the months to get something in to get fixed will be a pain.

[Dave&Ginny]

Originally Posted by ChristianM

Hi Guys!
The following post comes directly from Andy Cripe in response to all of the questions about brake warranty. The clips attached are from the owners manuals of other 5th wheel manufacturers who hold to the exact same standard of maintenance (sometimes, they even use the exact same verbiage). I hope this helps!! Thank you all for your patience and support.

FWD:
Redwood RV stand behind our units. Our brake maintenance is set at industry standard for safety and performance consideration (see attached photos/screen shots), it should also be noted that this has been in place in the industry for many years. We evaluate each situation on a case by case basis and use our manual and warranty documents as a starting point for this evaluation. We and the industry agree with Ford with regard to the owners responsibility on items that experience ‘wear and tear’. Our overall goal is to help deliver the best RV experience possible and there are 4 parties integral to a great experience; vendors, manufacturers, dealers and owners. Together we can ensure that things happen fairly and appropriately. I thank you all for your business, support and we are honored that you have allowed us to be a part of your story.

"According to D.O.T. laws and regulations, a driver responsible for his/her safety and those around them must check their brakes daily and or before descending any hills marked as excessive or with hills with warnings posted."

The definition of this said test..... is simply a tap on the foot peddle to assure a proper response as well as manually activating the trailer brake and walking around the rig to assure of no smoking or other signs of heat buildup.

We all do this every time we hook up to our RVs and tap the brakes. Therefore...if this is good enough for the DOT then it should be good enough for Redwood. There's no way in hell that any warranty claim should be denied unless they can prove you didn't check the brakes according to the DOT law. This simple test doesn't require any dealer or mechanic.

The attach document that was forwarded in this message said that the brakes have to be checked or inspected but their definition of the correct procedure isn't noted.

If Redwood continues down this path....they better have someone in a certain profession sitting behind a large Mahogany desk on a large retainer.

[RomanyLife]

Well said Dave. This is a very upsetting development. We are watching it closely. We are going in for service in 2 weeks and are going to have brakes checked for grease. If seals are leaking after less than 1000 miles I will be submitting a warranty claim. If it is denied I will be taking appropriate action. There is a 36rl in our campground right now. Gonna go chat with them about this to see if they have any brake issues.

[0nTheRoad]

Originally Posted by atom ant

Unless the agenda has changed, the warranty/service requirements are not a topic for discussion with Redwood at the rally.

Hopefully Christian will provide some feedback here within a day or two.

Not true, there is an open session on Friday afternoon where owners will have the opportunity to discuss whatever they choose to speak about.

[atom ant]

Originally Posted by 0nTheRoad

Not true, there is an open session on Friday afternoon where owners will have the opportunity to discuss whatever they choose to speak about.

Like I said Chuck, its not on the agenda. Open session is not the same as ROG taking this on as a primary topic to resolve with Redwood. The people that have this issue can't get to the Rally to speak out because they need brakes.

[Piper Guy's Gal]

Originally Posted by atom ant

Like I said Chuck, its not on the agenda. Open session is not the same as ROG taking this on as a primary topic to resolve with Redwood. The people that have this issue can't get to the Rally to speak out because they need brakes.

I would be very surprised if it does NOT come up at the Rally. Last year pre-rally there were grumblings about warranty work and customer service on this forum. And these were discussed somewhat at the open meeting. However, it was Andy's first time at the Rally. He talked the talk, and I think many of us wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt that things would get better. Well, the honeymoon is over and it appears things have gotten worse.

It is unfortunate that those of you who have had specific problems with something like this brake adjustment won't be in attendance. It would be much better to have someone like Marty(?) say, "I was denied warranty service because..." rather than to have one of us say, "I heard that you denied Marty coverage...." First person accounts are preferable.

Who knows - maybe the powers that be at RW might actually read these posts and say to themselves, "you know what - we have to do better for our customers."

[0nTheRoad]

Originally Posted by atom ant

Like I said Chuck, its not on the agenda. Open session is not the same as ROG taking this on as a primary topic to resolve with Redwood. The people that have this issue can't get to the Rally to speak out because they need brakes.

You're correct Brad, there is no specific item on the schedule for discussing the brakes issue. However, there is a time on the schedule for an open discussion with Redwood where owners are encouraged to speak their mind and though many on the forums will not be present, many will be and from the passion of this topic, it will be discussed.

[johnboytoo]

All this 'discussion' comes too late for us...

We had to 'resolve' it another way.

[azandy]

As I am the new guy and don't even own a RW yet I really have no car in the race.
But I will say I am surprised this thread is out of control.
I've owned an rv for many years. This brake slash axel issue I think is an axel maintenance program from dexter or whoever the manufacturer is. Not even sure why Redwood is involved in it.
I recently had brakes fixed and my dealer dealt with dexter directly. KZ was not involved.

Not trying to add to this but simply trying to figure out if I'm missing something here.

[ChristianM]

Hi All!

Since there has been a ton of activity overnight on this thread, I am going to try to address the things that I have seen pop up most frequently.

When everyone is this tied up in knots about an issue- it is easy to let things spiral out of control. Reading through the thread, I see lots of people who are (understandably) very scared, and upset because you feel like someone has not been upfront with you about your unit. A unit that you have poured time, money and great expectations into. So, let me try to be as up front as humanly possible about a couple of issues:

1) Dealer Responsibility: When your dealer receives your unit, whether it is from 50 miles away or 1,000 miles away...it is THEIR responsibility to check and adjust the brakes as soon as they check in the unit. They have specific forms and checklists to fill out, as required by the vendor of the brakes, showing that they have done their due diligence to maintain the breaks. That is their part of upholding the warranty, and believe it or not, the large majority of dealers take it very seriously. Because NOT checking the brakes can open them up to legal liability.

2) Customer Responsibility: Here is a "200 mile" question that everyone has been referencing. Is is mandated to EVERY RV manufacturer that we say in our owner's manuals that it is suggested brakes are checked and adjusted regularly. 200 miles is a suggestion given to us by the vendor of the brakes, and regularly checking the brakes is just part of good brake maintenance. When we say "200 miles" , it is from the time that you hook your tow vehicle up to the trailer and drive it off of the lot and off to your first adventure.

Now, here is the part that is most important. 200 miles is a suggestion and a recommendation for keeping your brakes in great shape...as are the other mileage suggestions afterwards.

Your warranty is NOT voided if you do not follow these suggestions. IT IS NOT VOIDED. :-) Warranty claims are decided on a case by case basis, and are largely decided on the shape of the brakes when they arrive for warranty repairs. A dealer/vendor just wants to see if you are regularly maintaining your brakes, just like a Jiffy Lube wants to keep your car's oil changed regularly. That being said, the owner can use the guidelines to their benefit, if they are unsure of how often they should look into getting the brakes checked. By doing regular and early brake checks, a vendor/dealer/tech can usually tell if a problem is an installation/quality issue OR if the issue is the result of improper maintenance. If you travel a LOT, it may be necessary more often then recommend...if you don't, it may be less. Maintenance is largely at the Owners discretion. Our brakes vendor may choose to deny a warranty claim if they feel that the owner has not properly kept up their braking system. That has nothing to do with Redwood or any decision we make on the matter, but rather, the decision that is handed to us by our vendor. This is not passing the blame, but rather having expectations of other businesses that they will do their jobs to the best of their ability.

Are the decisions made in regards to warranty always perfect? No! But as a company, we strive daily to correct ways that we have messed up, and to prevent further mistakes from happening.

From the bottom of my heart, I ask you guys to please understand that we KNOW we have a lot to work on as a company. We have never once been disillusioned enough to think that all of the thousands of people that have purchased CrossRoads/Redwood products of the years are happy....but please know that the fact that we are here and we are listening, means we are trying so so hard to do right by you guys. I am here to clear up as much as I can regarding this situation and any questions you guys may have. It is terrifying and largely outside of the realm of what I am used to dealing with, but there are answers that you guys are entitled to and valid questions!

But please know that when "speculation" takes hold and panic ensues, it is so much harder to address all of your concerns like they DESERVE to be addressed. It concerns me that so many have lost faith in Redwood in a simple online conversation that largely started as a question. Many many times, Redwood has extended goodwill to an owner over an issue that was sometimes just a matter of poor communication. However, it seems that very rarely we see those individuals posting in times like this. Redwood is still a company and a product that you can believe in and no differences have been made in the warranty policies. Therefore, for most of you, there is no reason to be alarmed at all. (Most of you...Some of you guys still need some help for sure ;-)



You can trust that this will, without a doubt, be a conversation at the rally. I have it on excellent authority that this will be addressed in a number of different ways...so PLEASE, have faith that it will be. You guys have asked that it will be addressed and made it known that it is important, so please trust that I would not be spending so much time on this forum just to ignore what you were saying and not have the "big issues" addressed.

Now that some of these questions have been answered, please know that I would be happy to address any further questions about this issue if you private message me. This thread spirals out of control too quickly for me to continue to post publicly again, but my inbox is open and I am HAPPY to address whatever questions you might think of.

Sorry for the long post. Thanks for reading and thanks for weathering this with me!

[atom ant]

I encourage everyone to continue to ask the questions publicly, just as it would be at the rally. Don't let Redwood sneak this issue offline through individual emails as it is self serving only to them. There is nothing out of control here, just a lot of owners that are getting angry about being denied warranty by Redwood for failures that should have never happened on any brand.

Christian, everyone here is a seasoned RVer, so this isn't their first rodeo dealing with warranty on their rigs. Don't try to tell us what is going on is normal - we know better, or we wouldn't be having this conversation. Denying warranty for failed brakes, failed seals, failed bearings within the year of manufacture because of some expectation of the owner to do maintenance on these is absurd. These things are failing for several reasons, none of which involve neglect of the owner. Inferior materials (wheel bearings crumbling and peeling, seals failing), poor installation (overtightened brakes, failed self adjusters, brakes filled with grease) to name just a few.

Lippert gives all manufacturers the hard line - they have for years. They get away with whatever they can. Believe me when I was referred by Redwood to Lippert to resolve my spring failure the first month of ownership 2 years ago, Brad Smith of Lippert had absolutely nothing good to say about Redwood and he said my springs were installed wrong and the spring hangers were just a mess and he wasn't going to warranty anything except the spring shackles because they were a normal wear part. For pity sake, my spring just came apart, but Brad with Lippert found every possible angle he could to deny the claim. Fortunately for us it was a different Redwood back then and without question I received all the parts I needed to get down the road (shipped to me by the way) and Redwood picked up the cost for the install at a private shop.

You can't let Andy hide behind Lippert for these warranty denials, or you will continue to get this kind of spiraling anger from the owners, and eventually it will catch up to you. You need to step up to the plate and honor your warranty as committed, and instead of blaming the owner, you need to look inside your own system to find out why these things are happening. Maybe the Falcon FIT commitment to Lippert was a mistake, and your company may suffer for that choice.

[Shane Wood]

Well said Atom.
Redwood should take heed of the Auto industry. Ford Dodge GM do not send you to Dana for warrenty issues when an axle falls apart or any other outsourced parts they use that quit working

[atom ant]

Originally Posted by 0nTheRoad

As to the ROG taking this on to resolve, we have. We are currently working with Redwood/Crossroads, as is Christian to resolve the issue as we have with many others.

Oh good - I'm glad you finally decided to take it on after last week. Too bad it couldn't have been a main topic for discussion. PS - it's much larger than a "brake issue", it's a "warranty issue" followed by what are the actual expectations of the owner to comply with the service expectations.

[Piper Guy's Gal]

First, I don't agree that this thread has "spiraled out of control." If it has, it's probably because we're hearing stories about warranty issues and are concerned. Prior to Christian's most recent post, I don't believe those concerns have been addressed responsibly by Redwood. So of course people will panic, especially those of you who are still in the warranty period. For the rest of us, the concern becomes more about what to do when it comes time to replace our rig.

Second, I do not believe exchanging private messages with Christian is the way to resolve this. The concern raised is across the board and should be addressed that way, not though private conversations.

Third, while I do believe Christian's most recent post is an improvement over the last one, there is still ambiguity in the comments. For example:

"When we say "200 miles" , it is from the time that you hook your tow vehicle up to the trailer and drive it off of the lot and off to your first adventure." Compare this to the actual language in the Owner's Manual: "Adjust brakes after the first 200 miles." (no mention of from the time you hook up and drive off the lot....)

More troubling to me is this comment: "Warranty claims are decided on a case by case basis, and are largely decided on the shape of the brakes when they arrive for warranty repairs."

Now I'm not mechanical. I don't have any interest in all this talk about brakes and drums and grease and what not. But I do pay attention to words. And when you're looking to buy an RV, no one has ever said to me, "it's got a great warranty, but it's decided on a case-by-case basis." Either there is a warranty or there isn't. I understand that you can do something that will void the warranty, like changing our the suspension. But if the compliance/adherence to certain guidelines is required to keep a warranty in effect, shouldn't that compliance be spelled out succinctly so you know exactly what it is? Otherwise, the omission or vagueness of the requirements will only work to the manufacturer or dealer's benefit leaving the consumer out in the cold wondering whether a warranty promise will be honored or not.

Lastly, Christian, there have been many, many, MANY favorable comments made about Redwood, though perhaps not in this particular thread. But there is a real concern here that, unless properly and thoroughly addressed by Redwood, will not go away.

[Rick and Mindy]

Originally Posted by Titan Guy

What a BS Response. That's absurd, they are self adjusting brakes!

I AGREE!!! What a bunch of BS! Why install and advertise self- adjusting brakes if they are not self-adjusting? Are you then saying that the self-adjustment system does not work? Redwood will not gain any sales from this. Warranty the product you are selling or tell us up front that only minimal warranty coverage is provided.