38FL A/c issues

ksaltman · 08-13-2014, 03:12 AM

So I've posted here before how when I got my 38FL they had my thermostats hooked backwards - i.e. bedroom thermostat to the middle a/c+heat pump and the kitchen thermostat to the a/c over the bedroom. With that the system would freeze us out in the bedroom and never shut off.

Well fixing that the problem was made much better but the bedroom still even on mildly warm days would stay 4-6 degrees cooler than the kitchen and FL area.

Looking at the vents the coach had 4 in the bedroom, 1 in the bathroom, 2 in the kitchen and 2 in the FL area. Seemed like a small amount of vents for the main area of the coach so I asked if a few more could be put in.

Well when the tech got the drawings from the engineer it turns out the engineer spec'd 2 vents in the bedroom, 2 in the bath, 4 in the kitchen and 2 in the FL area. The vents in the coach weren't installed correctly either which could account for the difference in temperatures in the rooms.

RW corrected the problem today and I now have 4 in the bedroom, 1 in the bath, 4 in the kitchen and 4 in the FL area. That's a few more than I should have but I can easily close some off to help balance the air flow.

I have confidence now that the a/c can be controlled better and I should have even temps through out.

I'd be interested to know how many other 38FL owners have the same vent issue.

0nTheRoad · 08-13-2014, 03:25 AM

Awesome Ken, another amazing success story of Redwood/Crossroads Service Department!!

rob_fla · 08-13-2014, 04:10 AM

Due to the Florida heat I have already done a similar mod to our 38FL, as the vent layout and location made no sense to me and there was not enough air flow where it needed to be.

I bought and added 3 vents in the Kitchen / Front Living area, I now have 4 vents in the Front Living area, 3 in the kitchen area, 1 in the bathroom and 2 in the bedroom.
We now have 5 vents on each (left and right) front to rear a/c trunk line for a total of 10 vents, seems better balanced and cooling is much more even.

I guess I should be working for Redwood !!!

My list of mods to our Redwood is getting pretty long, today I fixed the rear sewer line connection today.
It hangs way too low and I wanted to put a shutoff valve on the hose connection / exit so I would not get poop dumped on me when removing the cap and connecting the sewer hose.
Now it is rotated a little higher and the shutoff valve fits great.

rob_fla · 08-13-2014, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksaltman

Well when the tech got the drawings from the engineer it turns out the engineer spec'd 2 vents in the bedroom, 2 in the bath, 4 in the kitchen and 2 in the FL area.

The vents in the coach weren't installed correctly either which could account for the difference in temperatures in the rooms.

I'd be interested to know how many other 38FL owners have the same vent issue.

So does the shop floor even read the engineer's drawings and specs of just stick the vents anywhere?

Why is Redwood paying a design engineer if they are not going to follow his drawings and layouts ?

COLJDM · 08-13-2014, 02:25 PM

I am very interested on how you installed the additional vents. We have a 2012 36FL and the living room is always 8 degrees warmer than the rest of the coach; the kitchen is OK except on real hot days and the bedroom and bathroom are the coldest in the coach. I think additional vents in the living room as well as an additional return vent in the living room may fix the issue. Please provide your instructions to coljdm60@gmail.com. I appreciate your assistance and thanks in advance.

Tobys Home · 08-13-2014, 04:09 PM

Sounds like a great fix.(Add more vents) I would love to do that to our coach. My only fear is that it would be hard to find the ceiling supports and miss them when putting a hole in the ceiling. I guess the solution would be to drop a light and measure over. Our RL will freeze you in the couch area when both units are running and the bed room is just not receiving enough flow. I thought it was because of the two airs being located over the living and kitchen areas and not a lack of vents up front. Where did you get the additional vents?

lwg · 08-13-2014, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by COLJDM

I am very interested on how you installed the additional vents. We have a 2012 36FL and the living room is always 8 degrees warmer than the rest of the coach; the kitchen is OK except on real hot days and the bedroom and bathroom are the coldest in the coach. I think additional vents in the living room as well as an additional return vent in the living room may fix the issue. Please provide your instructions to coljdm60@gmail.com. I appreciate your assistance and thanks in advance.

I second this. I have the 38BR with the office option and there's only 1 vent in the office. When I close the office door to work it can reach mid 80's back here. Gets pretty warm.

ksaltman · 08-14-2014, 01:34 AM

I didn't do my install RW did, so can't give details on that but will be blocking 2 of the 4 vents I have in my bedroom and will post details how I do that.

Good luck with the install.

rob_fla · 08-14-2014, 04:11 AM

Pictures of the A/C Vents I added

Vent Location 1.pdf

I measured the same amount back from the ceiling connector rib at the other vents installed at the factory (approx. 4 Inches) and measured from the sidewall to the vent the same as the other (vents approx. 30 Inches) then sawed a hole in the ceiling.
The rectangular A/C duct is about 1 inch behind the Ceiling Wallboard and runs almost the full length of the coach.

Vent Location 1.pdf

spindrift · 08-14-2014, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob_fla

Pictures of the A/C Vents I added

Attachment 444

I measured the same amount back from the ceiling connector rib at the other vents installed at the factory (approx. 4 Inches) and measured from the sidewall to the vent the same as the other (vents approx. 30 Inches) then sawed a hole in the ceiling.
The rectangular A/C duct is about 1 inch behind the Ceiling Wallboard and runs almost the full length of the coach.

Attachment 444

How did you connect into the existing duct work?

rob_fla · 08-14-2014, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spindrift

How did you connect into the existing duct work?

The duct work is in a straight line front to rear, so measuring the existing vent locations should put you in the center of the duct work.

When ordering the vents you will be asked what size sleeve to get for the vent.
The Sleeve is a short tube the diameter of the vent that goes through the ceiling and the foam a/c duct work and seals to the duct work.

What I did to see how the factory installed the vents was to remove one vent and look at it, the hole in the ceiling, the hole in the duct and such.
When you remove the vent assembly from the hole in the ceiling and the duct you will see how it works.
You basically cut two holes in line with each other (one in the ceiling one in the foam duct work) that are the outside diameter of the vent sleeve, then when you install the vent, you slide the sleeve through the ceiling hole and into the duct work hole and mount the vent to the ceiling. (The sleeve attaches / snaps on to the vent)

My vents have a beauty / trim ring covering the screws so you have to remove / Pop Off the trim ring to access the 4 screws to remove the vent.
Note: You also have to order the Trim Rings separate when ordering the vent. Also for whatever reason, no mounting screws come with the vent, had to go to local hardware store to get screws.

spindrift · 08-14-2014, 07:28 PM

Perfect...thanks for the info.

ksaltman · 08-14-2014, 09:38 PM

So boy am I frustrated! I was going to post how I closed off a couple vents in my bedroom but I ran into a couple of SNAFUs.

First, when trying to determine what vents I should close I noticed 1 of the 4 vents had very little air flow so I started to dig in. The first BAD thing I found is that 2 of the 4 new vents installed by RW service are operating as returns rather than blowing vents. Yup you read that right, when the a/c unit above the kitchen is running the 2 new vents are sucking air not blowing!

I then determined that the ducts in the bedroom end are just ends not in the "U" configuration as designed by the engineer. If you are saying to yourself "what about the other end?", yup you guest it, the end over the FL area has the "U". See attached drawing from RW.

38FL-AC-Diagram.jpg

So what next, well we pulled the coach 250 miles yesterday to Versailles, IN planning to head back to Nashville Saturday. Well now we are going to stay here until Sunday go back to Topeka and be back at service first thing Monday morning.

Yup, I'm frustrated and so is my wife! I really thought we were done with service and finally had our new RW in working order.

**piper guy** · 08-14-2014, 09:48 PM

Sorry Ken
Break out some good wine and watch a good movie and just remember that it could be much worse.
Say hi to Gizzi for us

rob_fla · 08-14-2014, 10:07 PM

Wow, sorry for all the problems, I guess I am glad I am so far away from the Crossroads Service Center that I just have been doing the small repairs / mods myself.
I learn more about our coach and I know what I have.

Still, shame on the Crossroads Service Center for what appears to be making a bad situation worse.

ksaltman · 08-14-2014, 10:40 PM

Thanks Vaughn finding a good bottle of wine in Versailles could be a challenge but I'll give it the old college try.

rob_fla · 08-15-2014, 05:33 AM

Hope everything works out, we are finishing up a couple of projects on or 38FL this week.
Got the new Bauer keypad locks installed today, worked great with the door open but not so good with the door closed, found the cavity in the strike plate area is not deep enough and the dead bolt is bottoming out causing a fault with the Keypad operation.
I made the strike plate cavity deeper, now the lock works much better

Pop&Juju · 08-23-2014, 11:15 PM

I have a 38gk and have about 25percent of the air flow on the kitchen or drivers side of the coach as compared as compared to the dining side or passenger side. Also can pull ceiling light and have air coming out from ceiling. Anyone have any ideas how to get to where the ducts are connected to air conditioner?

rob_fla · 08-23-2014, 11:40 PM

On hot days with lots of sun, our 38FL's A/C units struggle to keep the inside of our coach below 80 degrees.

I installed slide toppers which helped with the heat on the slide roofs, added 3 vents in the kitchen / living area which helped with the air flow and balanced the A/C system a lot better, now temperature is much more consistent through out the coach.

Also I found out the collars on the A/C vents stick about 5/8" into the duct work effectively blocking and choking the air flow in the duct line.

I removed the A/C vents and shortened the vent collars so now the collars stick into the duct work about 1/4", now we have much better air flow at the vents down line.

I think a lot of the problems with restricted air flow in the duct work is the duct becomes pressurized when both units are running and the air looks for anywhere to escape.

It was a hot / direct sun with no shade day today and we maintained 76 to 78 degrees in the coach all day.

Short of adding another A/C unit, I do not know if there is much else I can do with the A/C system.

Oh well, fall and winter is coming so we should be good.

ksaltman · 08-24-2014, 05:55 AM

So basically after going back 250 miles to the service center to get our a/c looked at again (third time) we did come up with a few things that helped, but not fixed completely the issues w/ our a/c in our 2015 38FL but it is better in many ways.

A couple of things that came to light that surprised: (1) We don't have a "race track" or "U" style ducting system installed. We have two parallel air ducts dead ending on both sides. (2) Most but not all air vents have the black rings above the ceiling but none have any insulation between the actual duct and the ceiling so much air flow can be lost between the a/c ducting and the ceiling.

So about air out the lights, yes if there is leakage between the ducts and the ceiling for sure it will escape out the lights. Since the lights produce heat probably not the best way to vent a/c. The solution for us was to seal with silver/metal hvac tape the duct and ceiling panels.

Also, since we had some dead air space after the last ducts both forward in the FL area and aft in the bedroom area placing blockages to force the air down helped. More dramatic was to place a blockage just before the driver side duct before the bathroom vent so that more air would come into the kitchen also helped considerably. I didn't need any a/c cool air into the bathroom in my 38FL. Was better to force that air into the kitchen to cool/warm that space.

And finally doing some creative work with those black rings diverting air into the forward living space also helped.

I think if you can, get to the RW service center and have Randy and his team look at the situation. I'm sure they will do right and make it as good as they can. If you can't get back to Topeka maybe the service center in your area can contact them to talk through the situation and they can explain the situation. Just remember where every your are if you have a heat pump system check both sides, cooling and heating before you sign off on the fix. I have no idea how much traction this has gotten but having the forward a/c unit connected to the back thermostat and the aft a/c+heatpump unit connected to the forward thermostat makes no sense and will never work. They have to fix that first otherwise nothing will work but once that swap is done then the rest of the airflow balancing can be done with the ducting and vents.

Also, BTW while you are there have them fix up the battery cut off switch. They know the solution and are great to work with!

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