A Water Pressure Puzzle ........

**piper guy** · 11-12-2014, 03:23 AM

As some of you might be aware, I have been trying to track and fix the cause of a low water pressure issue for the last couple of months.
Whether we were hooked to city water or running off the tank on the pump, water pressure was much lower than usual.
I tried everything I could think of and also the suggestions from others on here but nothing really worked and nothing was found out of the ordinary.

All filters and screens were clear, tried it without the filter and also looked at every hose for kinks. Also pulled out all screens in all faucets and cleaned them. Again, a little improvement, but nowhere near what pressure should be .

So ........... tonight I'm winterizing the coach 'cause here on the east coast it's gonna get cold this weekend.. I've got the water heater bypassed, the winterizing valve turned on, and guess what ? I'm sucking pink stuff out of a 5 gallon bucket with the winterizing hose and I've got great water pressure !!
I shut the pump off, put the cap back on the hose, and turned the pump on figuring if the hose cap was leaking the pump wouldn't hold pressure but would be sucking air. Pump was fine, clicked a few times to build pressure and shut down.

I'm at a loss ........ any of you learned RV'ers have a suggestion as to what I've missed ? I'm thinking I'll replace the cap washer on the end of the hose if I can get one but I'm not really thinking that's the issue.

All ideas and suggestions are welcome !!

Foxfire · 11-12-2014, 03:34 AM

Bypass the winterizing valve, is all I can think of

atom ant · 11-12-2014, 03:50 AM

Oh man, wish I was there and we could play! I'm just not getting it.

**Dave&Ginny** · 11-12-2014, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piper guy

As some of you might be aware, I have been trying to track and fix the cause of a low water pressure issue for the last couple of months.
Whether we were hooked to city water or running off the tank on the pump, water pressure was much lower than usual.
I tried everything I could think of and also the suggestions from others on here but nothing really worked and nothing was found out of the ordinary.

All filters and screens were clear, tried it without the filter and also looked at every hose for kinks. Also pulled out all screens in all faucets and cleaned them. Again, a little improvement, but nowhere near what pressure should be .

So ........... tonight I'm winterizing the coach 'cause here on the east coast it's gonna get cold this weekend.. I've got the water heater bypassed, the winterizing valve turned on, and guess what ? I'm sucking pink stuff out of a 5 gallon bucket with the winterizing hose and I've got great water pressure !!
I shut the pump off, put the cap back on the hose, and turned the pump on figuring if the hose cap was leaking the pump wouldn't hold pressure but would be sucking air. Pump was fine, clicked a few times to build pressure and shut down.

I'm at a loss ........ any of you learned RV'ers have a suggestion as to what I've missed ? I'm thinking I'll replace the cap washer on the end of the hose if I can get one but I'm not really thinking that's the issue.

All ideas and suggestions are welcome !!

go buy a "pex"shut off valve and put it 11-12 inches from the end....problem solved. This is the same thing that happened to me.

**piper guy** · 11-12-2014, 03:57 AM

Dave ~ should it be Pex or a barbed fitting ?? The winterizing line is a flexible hose, or at least looks to be. It's a braided hose.

**Dave&Ginny** · 11-12-2014, 04:13 AM

mine is a braided hose that goes into a pex. This sound exactly what mine was doing. I even replaced my water pump with no improvements.

**hoosierguy** · 11-12-2014, 01:48 PM

Vaughn......I am not understanding how you can be getting low pressure on both city water and the pump. Based on you initial description, I would suspect that the common line that both city water and the pump pumps into has a constriction, kink or a partial plug. So, now you are getting good pressure from the pump when using the winterizing line? Maybe there are two restrictions........one from the fresh water tank to the pump (but the winterizing line is free of any obstruction and works well) and another from the city water source to the main common line supplying the trailer.

Dave's idea of a valve on the winterizing line is a good idea because eventually that cap and washer seal is not going to seal well.

Guy

**piper guy** · 11-12-2014, 01:54 PM

Guy - that was/is my thought also. I've traced all the lines thinking there might be a common place where there is a pressure reducer, a y that might be restricted or something similar but haven't found anything.

Totally frustrated and I'm just enough of a plumber to maybe stop a leak .........

**hoosierguy** · 11-12-2014, 02:16 PM

Vaughn.......do both the hot water and cold water lines at the kitchen and bathroom faucets have low operating pressure on both city water and the pump? Except for when you used the winterizing line?

Guy

**piper guy** · 11-12-2014, 07:19 PM

Guy- yes. Both hot and cold low pressure on pump and city.
Using the winterizing line both are great pressure.

spindrift · 11-12-2014, 10:15 PM

Maybe a valve that should be open, doesn't open enough, or a valve that should be closed, isn't closed enough?? These valves can fail internally and you'd never know it. This is a brain teaser for sure. At this point, I's start replacing valves.

TNTBaker · 11-12-2014, 10:36 PM

Well, I am following this now because I just gotta know. :-)

**hoosierguy** · 11-13-2014, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piper guy

Guy- yes. Both hot and cold low pressure on pump and city.
Using the winterizing line both are great pressure.

Vaughn.......now you have sufficiently aroused my engineering curiosity!

Just kind of thinking outloud here, this is what I hear you saying so far......
1. You have low pressure when water source is city water.
2. You have low pressure when using pump from fresh water tank.
3. you have full pressure when pump is drawing from winterizing line.

As soon as I can finish a current project on my RW, I will pull down the basement wall so I can look at the plumbing. I have been working on installing a battery tray (from Morryde) in the battery compartment and should finish that within a couple of days as soon as can get some new battery cables made.

If I can see the plumbing first hand again, maybe I can offer another point of view or see something that you may be overlooking. It sure seems to me that the way you have described the issue that there has to be 2 blockages...... one from the fresh water tank and one from city water. The common lines feeding hot water and cold water seem to be working okay when using the pump from the winterizing line.

Do you have a PEX tool kit? One thought I have had is to install a "Tee", just ahead of the pump, along with an adapter where you can use compressed air to blow back down into the fresh water tank to see if it will clear any obstruction. There may be construction debris that is partially plugging the draw line from the tank. You will need to keep your faucets closed when doing this so that the air is directed down into the fresh water tank.

If that works, and you start getting full pressure when using the pump from the fresh water tank, then you may want to perform a similar experiment on the city water side. What I can't envision, without looking at the plumbing, is just where to connect into the fresh water lines. I know it is a "rats" nest of plumbing back behind that basement wall. It is difficult enough to sort out where everything goes when you are looking at it, let alone trying to do it from memory.

I will post further as soon as I can look directly again.

Guy

**piper guy** · 11-13-2014, 03:13 AM

Guy - the scenario you posted is exactly what's going on.

After talking to Dave today, I'm going to add a shutoff in the line for winterizing about 10" from the pump. I'm also going to use the apex crimped and add a second clamp to each joint that I can get to.
It's starting to get cold here so may not accomplish all of this for awhile but I'm anxious to hear your comments and ideas.

**piper guy** · 11-13-2014, 03:15 AM

Also - please post pictures of your battery tray. I've been thinking of doing the same thing and going to a pair of group 31 batteries.

TnB · 11-13-2014, 03:39 AM

If you don't have a PEX tool kit, you can get Sharkbite fittings that can just be pushed onto the PEX line.

I have a couple different configurations (couplers, T's, elbows etc) in my tool box in case I get a leak in a place where I can't get the PEX tool into.

These are also removable and can be reused if you measured wrong.

**hoosierguy** · 11-13-2014, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piper guy

Also - please post pictures of your battery tray. I've been thinking of doing the same thing and going to a pair of group 31 batteries.

I will take some pictures. I would also caution you on your expectations.

I purchased the largest Morryde battery tray that would fit in the battery compartment. The actual tray is 14 inches wide by 21 inches long. Its overall dimensions are 16 inches wide by 24 inches long. I am currently installing 3 Interstate, Group 24, 12 volt batteries in parallel mainly because I already have them. In my research, the largest battery combination that I can install is 2, Group 29, 12 volt batteries in parallel (which I likely will do when these fail) or 2, 6 volt batteries in series. Two Group 31 batteries will not fit in the tray that I purchased. There may be other trays available from another supplier that would be slightly larger in width that would facilitate 2 group 31 batteries. I found that the Interstate SRM-29 (a group 29) battery actually has better specs than the Interstate group 31 battery in terms of reserve capacity.

Guy

**piper guy** · 11-13-2014, 01:58 PM

Thanks Guy. I hadn't gotten to the specs part yet, was just going under the " bigger would be better theory". I'll plan on a pair of 29's

One thing you might consider if you're not totally finished with your wiring yet is a second cut-off switch. I have mine wired so that I can take the second battery totally offline if wanted. A lot of times if I'm working on the coach when it's in storage and need to put the slides out or need some lighting I'll leave the second battery disconnected to preserve charge .
No power easily available in the storage lot and the generator install is in my list but not in the $$$ list yet. Lol

**hoosierguy** · 11-13-2014, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piper guy

Thanks Guy. I hadn't gotten to the specs part yet, was just going under the " bigger would be better theory". I'll plan on a pair of 29's

One thing you might consider if you're not totally finished with your wiring yet is a second cut-off switch. I have mine wired so that I can take the second battery totally offline if wanted. A lot of times if I'm working on the coach when it's in storage and need to put the slides out or need some lighting I'll leave the second battery disconnected to preserve charge .
No power easily available in the storage lot and the generator install is in my list but not in the $$$ list yet. Lol

Vaughn..........I actually did consider adding a second cut-off switch but decided not to spend the extra money. Instead, I re-wired the existing cutoff switch so that in truly does completely disconnect the batteries. After tracing out the original wiring, I found that there were 5 circuits connected, at the bus bars, to the batteries. Only 1 circuit was actually being disconnected when the switch was turned off. I don't know specifically what the circuits are within the coach because that would have taken a lot more tracing which wasn't really important to me. Anyway, I re-connected 2 of the cables and now the switch actually disconnects all loads from the batteries. So now, when I am finished with this project, I can turn the disconnect switch off and pull out the battery tray to check the water levels, check the voltage, charge the batteries or replace the batteries without crawling in that small space and lifting a 50 to 65 lbs. battery without any leverage to do so.

By the way, the total width of the compartment door opening is about 18 to 19 inches. So, if you can find a wider battery tray, that is the widest you can install. The compartment depth is 24 to 25 inches max, so, that is the longest dimension for a tray. I like the Morryde tray as it has ball bearing slide mechanisms and seems to very well made. I had to make a pair of 2 1/4 inch risers to support the tray so that it clears the bottom of the door opening.

Also, when you decide to shop for a battery tray, shop around some. I found a large range of prices for the same tray from $125. to over $200. I ended up buying from and RV dealer in Kentucky which had it dropped shipped directly from Morryde in Elkhart, IN. If I recall correctly, I paid $125. with free shipping and 2 day delivery.

Guy

**Dave&Ginny** · 11-13-2014, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoosierguy

Vaughn..........I actually did consider adding a second cut-off switch but decided not to spend the extra money. Instead, I re-wired the existing cutoff switch so that in truly does completely disconnect the batteries. After tracing out the original wiring, I found that there were 5 circuits connected, at the bus bars, to the batteries. Only 1 circuit was actually being disconnected when the switch was turned off. I don't know specifically what the circuits are within the coach because that would have taken a lot more tracing which wasn't really important to me. Anyway, I re-connected 2 of the cables and now the switch actually disconnects all loads from the batteries. So now, when I am finished with this project, I can turn the disconnect switch off and pull out the battery tray to check the water levels, check the voltage, charge the batteries or replace the batteries without crawling in that small space and lifting a 50 to 65 lbs. battery without any leverage to do so.

By the way, the total width of the compartment door opening is about 18 to 19 inches. So, if you can find a wider battery tray, that is the widest you can install. The compartment depth is 24 to 25 inches max, so, that is the longest dimension for a tray. I like the Morryde tray as it has ball bearing slide mechanisms and seems to very well made. I had to make a pair of 2 1/4 inch risers to support the tray so that it clears the bottom of the door opening.

Also, when you decide to shop for a battery tray, shop around some. I found a large range of prices for the same tray from $125. to over $200. I ended up buying from and RV dealer in Kentucky which had it dropped shipped directly from Morryde in Elkhart, IN. If I recall correctly, I paid $125. with free shipping and 2 day delivery.

Guy

I saw on line another SOB had their batteries sunken in the floor of the basement which I kind of like. Has anybody seen this or know where I can find that battery box? I'd convert over to dry cell batteries if I did this.

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