Disc brakes vs standard

[travelin' texans]

As I said I replaced all 4 of mine due to bad seals with help from a friend in an afternoon. It's a fairly simple process if you purchase complete assemblies, which is the cheapest, easiest, smartest way, for about $100 per wheel.

[NW Snowbirds]

"The break-in period is a typical phenomenon with drum brakes and especially electric
drum brakes. Electric drum brakes will require a break-in period to achieve full
performance. This break-in period applies for new axles and any time new brake
shoes and/or magnets are installed as part of regular maintenance.
Lippert Components has found through extensive brake testing that the break-in
period for our drum brakes can range from 20 to 50 brake applications.
Brakes can be seated in by applying approximately 8-10 volts to the trailer brakes at an
initial speed of 40 mph and allowing the truck/trailer combination to slow down to 20 or
25 mph. For best results do not use truck brakes during this procedure. The trailer
brakes will seat in faster by using them to stop both the truck and trailer. The easiest
method is to apply the trailer brakes using the manual activation lever located on the
in-cab brake controller. Care must be taken to not overheat the lining material,
therefore brake applications conducted at one mile intervals will suffice. The driver
should feel a noticeable difference in the brake performance during this period,
sometimes in as few as 10 applications. After 50 applications, the brake lining
material will be fully cured from the heat and develop close to 100% contact with the
brake drum surface."

The above quote is directly from the Lippert brochure titled TRAILER AXLE
OPERATION AND SERVICE MANUAL which is supposed to be provided by Redwood with the RW manual packet. It was excluded from my packet but I found it on line.

Since the brakes are new when the assembled trailer leaves the factory do we really believe that the transporters are following this break-in procedure? Is Santa Clause real?

My brakes were crappy from the start on my new 31SL. I had to keep increasing the gain on the brake controller until I hit the max, and even then the braking was poor. After about 6000 miles I decided to pull the drums and inspect the brakes. One wheel had leaked grease around the seal of significant quantity. I decided to get rid of the no-name Lippert components and installed new Dexter backing plates (made in USA) complete with new brake shoes, magnets and Dexter double lip seals. All four drums were heavily scored on the circumferential surfaces where the shoe linings make contact and all four drums were also scored on the inner surface where the magnets make contact. The magnets themselves were scored as were the brake linings. There were heavy grooves in the linings where the surface material was worn/torn away. I had the drums turned down by a machine shop but keep them. They were a USA product.

After these repairs I carefully followed the break-in instructions. At first there was little braking with the new shoes, etc. After burnishing in the linings and drums by following the procedure above, the brakes improved significantly. I can even lock up the wheels. Now I am running between 5.0 and 6.0 on my brake controller after another 10000 miles.

So I raise the question of whether the transporters follow the break-in procedure and how many problems are a result of not doing so.

[coloradolivin]

Originally Posted by NW Snowbirds

"The break-in period is a typical phenomenon with drum brakes and especially electric
drum brakes. Electric drum brakes will require a break-in period to achieve full
performance. This break-in period applies for new axles and any time new brake
shoes and/or magnets are installed as part of regular maintenance.
Lippert Components has found through extensive brake testing that the break-in
period for our drum brakes can range from 20 to 50 brake applications.
Brakes can be seated in by applying approximately 8-10 volts to the trailer brakes at an
initial speed of 40 mph and allowing the truck/trailer combination to slow down to 20 or
25 mph. For best results do not use truck brakes during this procedure. The trailer
brakes will seat in faster by using them to stop both the truck and trailer. The easiest
method is to apply the trailer brakes using the manual activation lever located on the
in-cab brake controller. Care must be taken to not overheat the lining material,
therefore brake applications conducted at one mile intervals will suffice. The driver
should feel a noticeable difference in the brake performance during this period,
sometimes in as few as 10 applications. After 50 applications, the brake lining
material will be fully cured from the heat and develop close to 100% contact with the
brake drum surface."

The above quote is directly from the Lippert brochure titled TRAILER AXLE
OPERATION AND SERVICE MANUAL which is supposed to be provided by Redwood with the RW manual packet. It was excluded from my packet but I found it on line.

Since the brakes are new when the assembled trailer leaves the factory do we really believe that the transporters are following this break-in procedure? Is Santa Clause real?

My brakes were crappy from the start on my new 31SL. I had to keep increasing the gain on the brake controller until I hit the max, and even then the braking was poor. After about 6000 miles I decided to pull the drums and inspect the brakes. One wheel had leaked grease around the seal of significant quantity. I decided to get rid of the no-name Lippert components and installed new Dexter backing plates (made in USA) complete with new brake shoes, magnets and Dexter double lip seals. All four drums were heavily scored on the circumferential surfaces where the shoe linings make contact and all four drums were also scored on the inner surface where the magnets make contact. The magnets themselves were scored as were the brake linings. There were heavy grooves in the linings where the surface material was worn/torn away. I had the drums turned down by a machine shop but keep them. They were a USA product.

After these repairs I carefully followed the break-in instructions. At first there was little braking with the new shoes, etc. After burnishing in the linings and drums by following the procedure above, the brakes improved significantly. I can even lock up the wheels. Now I am running between 5.0 and 6.0 on my brake controller after another 10000 miles.

So I raise the question of whether the transporters follow the break-in procedure and how many problems are a result of not doing so.

OMG !! You went with Dexter instead of Lippert ???!!! Shame on you !!

[atom ant]

Also, you can't set your gain on cold brakes - they have to be hot. When cold they offer little braking on electric brakes. Only takes a mile or two to get them hot.

[Marty51]

Thanks for the replies.
I lost the battle with Lippert to have the brakes replaced under warranty. They said because I didn't take it in for a 200 mile check up I voided the warranty. I live 160 miles from the dealer so I guess I needed to drive 100 miles toward home then turn around and go back. When I questioned them on the 200 miles there response was this is implied mileage. Then they back pedaled more and said I should have taken in at 3 months to have the brakes checked at my expense. I live in upstate NY, purchased the unit in September so my 3 months were December. Unit was put up for the winter. Bottom line it is a bunch of crap and I am getting screwed. Picking the unit up this Friday heading about an hour away for the weekend then home. Again I will be over the 200 mile checkup so I guess if I have a problem I lose again. I will follow the above procedure the best I can on my hour trip and my way home. All I can say is I thought I was buying a quality unit with from a company that would stand behind it. Also will add that I feel the dealer should have made this very clear about the break in procedure. My guess is there are clueless about this procedure because Redwood does a very poor job advising/training there dealers. Very disappointed with Redwood and now I am going to nick pick everything. Buyers beware.

[Grizzby]

Sorry about the outcome Marty51. I've worked in retail management for a long time. There is something to be said about taking care of the customer...doing the right thing when a product you sell doesn't meet the customers expectations. In the long run, you build a larger, more loyal customer base, because they know you will stand behind what you sell. Most consumers will even pay more for your products and services if they know there is service AFTER the sale.

[atom ant]

Originally Posted by Marty51

Thanks for the replies.
I lost the battle with Lippert to have the brakes replaced under warranty. They said because I didn't take it in for a 200 mile check up I voided the warranty. I live 160 miles from the dealer so I guess I needed to drive 100 miles toward home then turn around and go back. When I questioned them on the 200 miles there response was this is implied mileage. Then they back pedaled more and said I should have taken in at 3 months to have the brakes checked at my expense. I live in upstate NY, purchased the unit in September so my 3 months were December. Unit was put up for the winter. Bottom line it is a bunch of crap and I am getting screwed. Picking the unit up this Friday heading about an hour away for the weekend then home. Again I will be over the 200 mile checkup so I guess if I have a problem I lose again. I will follow the above procedure the best I can on my hour trip and my way home. All I can say is I thought I was buying a quality unit with from a company that would stand behind it. Also will add that I feel the dealer should have made this very clear about the break in procedure. My guess is there are clueless about this procedure because Redwood does a very poor job advising/training there dealers. Very disappointed with Redwood and now I am going to nick pick everything. Buyers beware.

That is total complete nonsense Marty and I would not give up! I would call Jim Lazzaro direct if I had to. Your warranty is not through Lippert, it is through REDWOOD! If Lippert doesn't want to cover it, then that is between Lippert and Redwood, not you and Redwood. Redwood can't use Lippert as the scapegoat, because Lippert denies EVERYTHING. Lippert denied MY spring coming apart, but Redwood covered it. That was before I even got home with it.

You are getting run over by a train, and I wouldn't take it! NOBODY is expected to take their trailer in at 200 miles to get the brakes checked. In fact, the Dealer wouldn't even take it in for that, and they would probably laugh at you.

Don't give up - this whole thing is getting my hackles up beyond belief!!

[Rick and Mindy]

My mom used to always say "the squeaky wheel gets the grease!" No pun intended! You need to be more squeaky!!!!!! Jim Lazzarino is the General Manager of Redwood and he is very helpful when it comes to these types of issues. I don't no of anyone who takes their rvs in for a 200 mile check. Again, I would want to know "if the brakes are self adjusting, why would I have to adjust the brakes after 200 miles?" Redwood should cover this under their 2 year warranty, even if Lippert refuses!

[RomanyLife]

Absolutely insane. Call Redwood. I know they will help you.

[ChristianM]

Originally Posted by Marty51

Thanks for the replies.
I lost the battle with Lippert to have the brakes replaced under warranty. They said because I didn't take it in for a 200 mile check up I voided the warranty. I live 160 miles from the dealer so I guess I needed to drive 100 miles toward home then turn around and go back. When I questioned them on the 200 miles there response was this is implied mileage. Then they back pedaled more and said I should have taken in at 3 months to have the brakes checked at my expense. I live in upstate NY, purchased the unit in September so my 3 months were December. Unit was put up for the winter. Bottom line it is a bunch of crap and I am getting screwed. Picking the unit up this Friday heading about an hour away for the weekend then home. Again I will be over the 200 mile checkup so I guess if I have a problem I lose again. I will follow the above procedure the best I can on my hour trip and my way home. All I can say is I thought I was buying a quality unit with from a company that would stand behind it. Also will add that I feel the dealer should have made this very clear about the break in procedure. My guess is there are clueless about this procedure because Redwood does a very poor job advising/training there dealers. Very disappointed with Redwood and now I am going to nick pick everything. Buyers beware.

Marty,
On behalf of Redwood, I am SO sorry for what you have been through with your unit. Please know that not only do we hear you and your story, but we want to do everything we can to help you as you move forward. I have private messaged you to get more information and to see if there is anything we can do to help from our end.
Please also know that we are as a company very aware of the gap that sometimes exists in procedure knowledge, and it IS being addressed in a multitude of ways that will benefit both customers and dealers. We understand how valuable your time and money is, and are working hard to make sure others understand that as well.

Hang in there!

[Marty51]

Hi All, Yes we purchased it new. It is 2014 38GK. The claim has been denied because I did not take it in for the 200 mile/3 month brake adjustment. As stated above why would you need to adjust self adjusting brakes. The tech (Tom) also told me I have to take it in every 3 months at my expense for a brake inspection to ensure if I have another problem it would be covered maybe. Sure sounds like there is a know problem no one is owning up to. I also ask him if the transporter followed the break in procedure which he said I have no way of knowing that. Then when I ask do you think the transporter could have done this of which he said I can't say one way or the other. But he had no problem saying because I did not have them checked it is my responsibility. I have reached out to Christian who is in customer service one last time to see if I can have this covered. If I don't hear tomorrow before my appointment with my lawyer I plan on doing whatever I have to do to get my money. At this point I am totally dissatisfied with Redwood and plan on posting what happened here on social media. It may not help me but maybe the next guy and if they lose a sale or 2 they just may have wished they covered this. Lastly I will add that the dealer gave me the deer in the head light look when I ask them about the Lippert brake in procedure and when they read it they said we have never seen this before. I also ask them for suggestions on what to do to help ensure this doesn't happen again and yep that same deer was looking right back at me. There is a big communication gap at least between where we bought our unit and Redwood. You would think a procedure on the brakes would be something that would be covered during the orientation as it maybe be important but I guess how to turn lights on and off is the priority. I believe I'm going back to the dealer this Friday for 2 reasons. First it will be about 320 miles and secondly I have very little trailer brake even with the controller turned way up. I have to assume they need adjusting and this is probably my fault also because it will be more than 200 miles. I thought I bought a quality unit from a stand up company boy was I wrong. For sure won't buy another.

[mstan]

Marty, I would contact the Good Sam action line. Email actionline@goodsamclub.com

This is total and complete garbage. I understand they most likely get scammed and some abuse the system. However, for you and I who are paying these prices for what we are sold as full-time RV. And reassured while we are looking that they will stand behind it. This could be easily settled with just some common horse sense. This is not some small non important item. This is safety and lives on the line. I would not give up Marty and I am interested in the final outcome. I also am the owner of a 38GK and have been dealing with some incompetency issues with my dealer also.

[ChristianM]

Originally Posted by Marty51

Hi All, Yes we purchased it new. It is 2014 38GK. The claim has been denied because I did not take it in for the 200 mile/3 month brake adjustment. As stated above why would you need to adjust self adjusting brakes. The tech (Tom) also told me I have to take it in every 3 months at my expense for a brake inspection to ensure if I have another problem it would be covered maybe. Sure sounds like there is a know problem no one is owning up to. I also ask him if the transporter followed the break in procedure which he said I have no way of knowing that. Then when I ask do you think the transporter could have done this of which he said I can't say one way or the other. But he had no problem saying because I did not have them checked it is my responsibility. I have reached out to Christian who is in customer service one last time to see if I can have this covered. If I don't hear tomorrow before my appointment with my lawyer I plan on doing whatever I have to do to get my money. At this point I am totally dissatisfied with Redwood and plan on posting what happened here on social media. It may not help me but maybe the next guy and if they lose a sale or 2 they just may have wished they covered this. Lastly I will add that the dealer gave me the deer in the head light look when I ask them about the Lippert brake in procedure and when they read it they said we have never seen this before. I also ask them for suggestions on what to do to help ensure this doesn't happen again and yep that same deer was looking right back at me. There is a big communication gap at least between where we bought our unit and Redwood. You would think a procedure on the brakes would be something that would be covered during the orientation as it maybe be important but I guess how to turn lights on and off is the priority. I believe I'm going back to the dealer this Friday for 2 reasons. First it will be about 320 miles and secondly I have very little trailer brake even with the controller turned way up. I have to assume they need adjusting and this is probably my fault also because it will be more than 200 miles. I thought I bought a quality unit from a stand up company boy was I wrong. For sure won't buy another.

Marty,

After we spoke the other day and your information was passed to Customer Service, I had not received any other communication from you. I know that customer service is working to see what they could do for you- but had hoped that I could receive some updates from you so that we could continue to try to continue to help. :-) Please continue to communicate with me so that I can try to help in any way that I can!
If you are able, please private message me so that I can at least have an idea of transpired between the time that you and I spoke (besides the info that you posted on here).
Thanks!

Christian

[steve & darlene]

Originally Posted by Titan Guy

Why wait? A disc brake conversion is only $2500 installed.

I live in Arlington TX. Where would be my best bet to have disc brakes installed??

[Buddy Wallace]

Originally Posted by piper guy

Had drum brakes on the RL when we got it. Even after adjusting brakes and playing with the brake gain, I never had the feeling of great stopping power. In fact, blew through a couple of intersections when the light changed and I knew I couldn't get it stopped.

When we did the upgrade to the IS suspension at MorRyde, I made the disc brakes conversion also. Only comment I can make is OMG what a difference. The whole rig now brakes like I didn't even have a trailer back there. Stopping for something is no longer a much planned ahead issue and in fact got the rig stopped short to miss a dog in the road that I know I couldn't have done with the drum brakes.

Will NEVER tow a trailer again without discs. Just my .02.

I talked to the guy at Morryde but forgot his name, do you have it still, and what stiffness on the IS did he use?

[piper guy]

Hi Buddy
You probably talked to Gary. Super nice guy and very knowledgeable. Has been at MorRyde for many years.
I don't remember which spring we used. We used 8k axles and weight size we were right at the top of 7k range. Decided to use bottom end 8k springs and they turned out to be too stiff. Changed them to 7k upper end. As far as the Durometer number and part number, I don't remember.

My recommendation is to take a couple hundred mile trip or drive before you leave the Elkhart area to check the ride and handling. Adjustments are easy and even swapping the springs only took them a couple hours.

Great people to deal with. I will never own another fifth wheel without the IS and discs.

[Buddy Wallace]

That was who I talked too. I think he quoted 6000.00 for 8 ton axles with Zodiac disc brakes, he was against the oil bath bearings. Thanks for the info, appreciate your help.

[piper guy]

Buddy, one thing you might want to add is Timken bearings to each wheel rather than the no-name imported ones that come with the hub.
I don't remember what the upgrade cost was but I think it was about $200.00 total for all 4. I wanted top quality bearings.

I'll be at MorRyde on Monday 8/3 for an inspection and check of the suspension and also pulling the wheels and servicing bearings. I'll know at that point if the money was well spent. Will have about 7k miles on the suspension and bearings at that point.

[Buddy Wallace]

Can you stay in the Redwood while it is in the shop?

[NW Snowbirds]

Originally Posted by piper guy

Buddy, one thing you might want to add is Timken bearings to each wheel rather than the no-name imported ones that come with the hub.
I don't remember what the upgrade cost was but I think it was about $200.00 total for all 4. I wanted top quality bearings.

I'll be at MorRyde on Monday 8/3 for an inspection and check of the suspension and also pulling the wheels and servicing bearings. I'll know at that point if the money was well spent. Will have about 7k miles on the suspension and bearings at that point.

And don't forget new double lip quality grease seals!!!