Full or Empty Tanks for Travel

[trfield58]

Originally Posted by atom ant

Two on this forum have lost tanks.

it was my intent to worry - everyone. LCI comes up with those kind of excuses to deny claims for such a catastrophic failure, even cracks in the frame, so I think we need to hear from Redwood that the Redwood is designed to carry full tanks. That's all we need to hear.

http://www.redwoodowners.com/forums/...orts-2915.html

We met a couple last weekend in Sacket's Harbor area (NY State) that had a 39 MB like ours and they lost their galley tank. They have never visited this forum and were unaware of some others that have experienced this tragic event. Apparently, Redwood authorized a mobile Tech (they are full-timers) to do the replacement.

[atom ant]

Originally Posted by trfield58

We met a couple last weekend in Sacket's Harbor area (NY State) that had a 39 MB like ours and they lost their galley tank. They have never visited this forum and were unaware of some others that have experienced this tragic event. Apparently, Redwood authorized a mobile Tech (they are full-timers) to do the replacement.

That's excellent! I do hope Redwood paid for the repair if they were in warranty.

[atom ant]

Originally Posted by Piper Guy's Gal

Respectfully, we're talking peanuts and liquid tanks. Peanuts are also sold for consumption both shelled and unshelled. And it's probably not a bad idea to take a look at whatever it is you are putting in your mouth.

On the other hand, I do believe a reasonable person would think that at least a fresh water tank is meant to be carried full. Otherwise, why have a fresh water tank, at least at the capacity our tanks come in? If unsafe, then why not include say a 15 gallon tank and tell owners that they have to rely on the water hook up at a site? Gray and black is a little different. Their capacity could be one of convenience, so that you don't have to drain everyday.

If there was a structural failure attributed to the weight of a full fresh water tank, well that's a case I would happily take.

I'm not arguing with you Tracy, I feel the same. However you could be up against Brad Smith with LCI and he clearly feels your reasonable thoughts about a fresh water tank is not his reasonable thoughts, and as the manufacturer he unfortunately gets the initial advantage.

I would disagree with you on the black tank - carry in, carry out that's what self contained means, and that's all a boondocker can do if they don't have a dump site park. The black should be equally designed to carry it's load just like the fresh.

[Piper Guy's Gal]

I'm not saying that the suspension shouldn't have to carry either the black or gray (grey?) tanks, or more to the point both, to capacity. What I am suggesting is that I could see Lippert saying it wasn't designed for you to be transporting waste water based upon the reasons I said before. I do agree 100% with what you say about boondocking on that issue and that would be quite logical and expected. The point I was trying to make is why provide a fresh water tank with such a capacity if it wasn't expected to be used to carry fresh water. Probably talking in circles here.

At the end of the day, in the absence of a written declaration stating otherwise, it would hinge on what a reasonable person expects. A reasonable person expects the frame to support the weight of all of the components utilized to maximum capacity.

[atom ant]

I agree with what you are thinking. I carry full tanks and I expect the rig to perform that way. I just get really defensive when I hear some of this stuff getting turned down for unreasonable claims by the manufacturer.

I'm stirring the pot so I'll let it go - I just hope this all stays focused at the Rally when the owners get the opportunity to express warranty frustrations with Redwood and Lippert.

[johnboytoo]

If non-disclosures were not the norm,
there could be a lot more information out there....

[Shane Wood]

Originally Posted by atom ant

Ya, the consumer doesn't always make out on those. We would especially be without cause because the manufacturer is silent on the intended use of the tanks.

The question of whether goods are fit for their ordinary purpose is much more frequently litigated. Thomas Coffer sued the manufacturer of a jar of mixed nuts after he bit down on an unshelled filbert, believing it to have been shelled, and damaged a tooth. Coffer argued in part that the presence of the unshelled nut among shelled nuts was a breach of the implied warranty of merchantability. Unquestionably, Coffer was using the nuts for their ordinary purpose when he ate them, and unquestionably, he suffered a dental injury when he bit the filbert's hard shell. But the North Carolina appellate court held that the jar of mixed nuts was nonetheless fit for the ordinary purpose for which jars of mixed nuts are used (Coffer v. Standard Brands, 30 N.C. App. 134, 226 S.E.2d 534 [1976]). The court consulted the state agriculture board's regulations and noted that the peanut industry allows a small amount of unshelled nuts to be included with shelled nuts without rendering the shelled nuts inedible or adulterated. The court also noted that shells are a natural incident to nuts.

I may be wrong but I think there is a difference between a holding tank and a jar of nuts

[Beechguyjim]

I just had the black tank fail lucky for me I had just dumped it and was flushing it for about twenty min when water stated pouring out of the belly of the beast at first I thought the sprayer hose came undone so when all the water came out I closed the valve and went in and flushed the pot for three or so min went back outside and the water was coming out the belly again pulled the bottom down the next day and saw a kink in the take above where the pipe goes in I had to use a heat gun to straiten the kink out and put the pipe back in also made a reinforcement brace so it can't do it again I sure was glad the tank had all the poopy water out

[atom ant]

Originally Posted by Shane Wood

I may be wrong but I think there is a difference between a holding tank and a jar of nuts

I fully expected you to miss the point Shane. Just pointing out the even the most confident in their reasonableness can find themselves outdazzled by those by those with the bigger stake in the outcome.

[ChristianM]

Originally Posted by atom ant

Two on this forum have lost tanks.

it was my intent to worry - everyone. LCI comes up with those kind of excuses to deny claims for such a catastrophic failure, even cracks in the frame, so I think we need to hear from Redwood that the Redwood is designed to carry full tanks. That's all we need to hear.

http://www.redwoodowners.com/forums/...orts-2915.html

Hi Guys,

I'll be honest, I had NO idea this was even an issue...so thanks for making me aware.

Redwood definitely isn't ignoring this thread, but I AM waiting to talk to our Head of Customer Service before I give a specific answer to Atom Ants question. Mostly, because I think that most of you have hit the nail on the head by saying "you can tow with them full as long as it doesn't exceed your GVWR"...but I want to hear it straight from the horse's mouth and pass it on :-) I have been trying to get in touch with him all day, so as soon as I do, you will hear from me!

One thing that we are also understanding is that the communication between RW, the vendors and you guys needs to be 100% BETTER. Even though Redwood has really tried to take care of many of the claims that Lippert has denied, I think overall better communication is the key to stopping these issues before they start.

Ya'll stay tuned!

[Dave&Ginny]

Originally Posted by ChristianM

Hi Guys,

I'll be honest, I had NO idea this was even an issue...so thanks for making me aware.

Redwood definitely isn't ignoring this thread, but I AM waiting to talk to our Head of Customer Service before I give a specific answer to Atom Ants question. Mostly, because I think that most of you have hit the nail on the head by saying "you can tow with them full as long as it doesn't exceed your GVWR"...but I want to hear it straight from the horse's mouth and pass it on :-) I have been trying to get in touch with him all day, so as soon as I do, you will hear from me!

One thing that we are also understanding is that the communication between RW, the vendors and you guys needs to be 100% BETTER. Even though Redwood has really tried to take care of many of the claims that Lippert has denied, I think overall better communication is the key to stopping these issues before they start.

Ya'll stay tuned!

Thanks for chiming in on this.

[atom ant]

Thanks Christian! I would feel better if I could hear it from RW.

Having nearly 125 gallons of fresh water between the tank and hot water heater has really opened up new frontiers for us with campgrounds that don't have water. We've never had that kind of capacity before, and it would be a shame if we couldn't actually use it for fear of voiding warranty.

[Shane Wood]

Brad
If you fill them up throw out your peanuts

[Shane Wood]

Thanks again Christian for stepping up to help alleviate these concerns

[atom ant]

Originally Posted by Shane Wood

Brad
If you fill them up throw out your peanuts

Huh? that went over my head sorry

[Marty51]

Thanks Christian for running this up the ladder for us. Good communication like this is what we all need. Looking forward to hearing the response from customer service. I will also add I don't think this is a problem at this point but a concern that for sure needs clarification.

[RomanyLife]

Thanks everyone for this discussion. This is how problems - real or perceived - get ELIMINATED. THANK YOU.

[travelin' texans]

Thanks Christian!! I don't think this troubleshooting job you have had thrust upon you was what your original job was to be?? But thanks just the same & keep up the good work!

[ChristianM]

Alright!
So, after talking to the head of RW customer service, here is what I came up with. Again, I unfortunately can't speak on behalf of Lippert or WHY they have denied claims in the past...but here is RW company standard.

It is OK to tow with a FULL freshwater tank and hot water heater...as long as your total weight is under the GVWR. Lady E Cooper gave some great tips in her post on how to estimate weight on your water tanks! Redwood weights are actually calculated with full water tanks and hot water heater. (WHOO HOO!)

When I spoke to the head of customer service, he emphasized just being very very careful about over loading ANY RV (either Redwood or SOB), because the weight limits are calculated with the brakes, frame, and your overall safety in mind.

Hope this is helpful! I'd be happy to field any other questions if you have them (it might just take a while for me to check with our Customer service and warranty guys!).

[ChristianM]

Originally Posted by travelin' texans

Thanks Christian!! I don't think this troubleshooting job you have had thrust upon you was what your original job was to be?? But thanks just the same & keep up the good work!

haha!! I'll say this...the customer service department has heard a LOT more from me then they ever expected to. BUT, I have been fortunate to learn more about the practical, troubleshooting side of RVs than I ever thought I would! Not many public relations people have been able to see this side of the industry. Thanks to you guys for understanding that even though this stuff is DEFINITELY not my forte, I will try to help ya'll in any way possible!