First Week in our38FL

[piper guy]

I've been giving this quite a bit of thought. The marine industry (boat builders) had a very similar QC problem back in the eighties.
When we took the Redwood tour last year, one of the things that was mentioned was that the production workers worked a "piece rate" system. Meaning, for instance, if their quote for that day was 6' they could leave as soon as they had 6 done. The incentive is to do quantity, not quality. If you stay and do 7 or 8 you get paid more. This IS NOT conducive to quality manufacturing. This is the same system the boat builders used to use. Key words "used to".

The better builders, such as Carver Yachts and Sea Ray ditched the piece rate system and went with a decent hourly wage and a quarterly bonus system for each employee. The key thing they did was tie the bonus into warranty $$ paid out. Things that were out of the production peoples control such as equipment failures were not counted. Anything that was a warranty item that was production related was counted and the $$ were deducted from the bonus pool. Also, there was a detailed listing each quarter of what the warranty costs were a nod what department they came from.

Funny thing ..... Within a year, warranty costs plummeted, quality improved, and all the production employees were actually making a better wage and even more important, the customer and dealer got a MUCH better boat.

Not an easy change to make, but the manufacturer of RV's that has the guts to do this will, in my opinion, build one hell of a product.

Just my thoughts ......

[Dave&Ginny]

Originally Posted by piper guy

I've been giving this quite a bit of thought. The marine industry (boat builders) had a very similar QC problem back in the eighties.
When we took the Redwood tour last year, one of the things that was mentioned was that the production workers worked a "piece rate" system. Meaning, for instance, if their quote for that day was 6' they could leave as soon as they had 6 done. The incentive is to do quantity, not quality. If you stay and do 7 or 8 you get paid more. This IS NOT conducive to quality manufacturing. This is the same system the boat builders used to use. Key words "used to".

The better builders, such as Carver Yachts and Sea Ray ditched the piece rate system and went with a decent hourly wage and a quarterly bonus system for each employee. The key thing they did was tie the bonus into warranty $$ paid out. Things that were out of the production peoples control such as equipment failures were not counted. Anything that was a warranty item that was production related was counted and the $$ were deducted from the bonus pool. Also, there was a detailed listing each quarter of what the warranty costs were a nod what department they came from.

Funny thing ..... Within a year, warranty costs plummeted, quality improved, and all the production employees were actually making a better wage and even more important, the customer and dealer got a MUCH better boat.

Not an easy change to make, but the manufacturer of RV's that has the guts to do this will, in my opinion, build one hell of a product.

Just my thoughts ......

Well said Vaughn

[atom ant]

Originally Posted by piper guy

I've been giving this quite a bit of thought. The marine industry (boat builders) had a very similar QC problem back in the eighties.
When we took the Redwood tour last year, one of the things that was mentioned was that the production workers worked a "piece rate" system. Meaning, for instance, if their quote for that day was 6' they could leave as soon as they had 6 done. The incentive is to do quantity, not quality. If you stay and do 7 or 8 you get paid more. This IS NOT conducive to quality manufacturing. This is the same system the boat builders used to use. Key words "used to".

The better builders, such as Carver Yachts and Sea Ray ditched the piece rate system and went with a decent hourly wage and a quarterly bonus system for each employee. The key thing they did was tie the bonus into warranty $$ paid out. Things that were out of the production peoples control such as equipment failures were not counted. Anything that was a warranty item that was production related was counted and the $$ were deducted from the bonus pool. Also, there was a detailed listing each quarter of what the warranty costs were a nod what department they came from.

Funny thing ..... Within a year, warranty costs plummeted, quality improved, and all the production employees were actually making a better wage and even more important, the customer and dealer got a MUCH better boat.

Not an easy change to make, but the manufacturer of RV's that has the guts to do this will, in my opinion, build one hell of a product.

Just my thoughts ......

I can certainly believe that Vaughan! We have had a 1995 SeaRay since brand new, and it has never been in for warranty, it has never failed me, and it looks like brand new inside and out! The only age showing on it is the trailer made by Heritage. We could only wish our RVs turned out to be as well put together as that boat we have had for over 19 years.

[0nTheRoad]

Originally Posted by piper guy

I've been giving this quite a bit of thought. The marine industry (boat builders) had a very similar QC problem back in the eighties.
When we took the Redwood tour last year, one of the things that was mentioned was that the production workers worked a "piece rate" system. Meaning, for instance, if their quote for that day was 6' they could leave as soon as they had 6 done. The incentive is to do quantity, not quality. If you stay and do 7 or 8 you get paid more. This IS NOT conducive to quality manufacturing. This is the same system the boat builders used to use. Key words "used to".

The better builders, such as Carver Yachts and Sea Ray ditched the piece rate system and went with a decent hourly wage and a quarterly bonus system for each employee. The key thing they did was tie the bonus into warranty $$ paid out. Things that were out of the production peoples control such as equipment failures were not counted. Anything that was a warranty item that was production related was counted and the $$ were deducted from the bonus pool. Also, there was a detailed listing each quarter of what the warranty costs were a nod what department they came from.

Funny thing ..... Within a year, warranty costs plummeted, quality improved, and all the production employees were actually making a better wage and even more important, the customer and dealer got a MUCH better boat.

Not an easy change to make, but the manufacturer of RV's that has the guts to do this will, in my opinion, build one hell of a product.

Just my thoughts ......

Totally agree and I really hope/wish the RV industry would change. Really, all it takes is one...one manufacturer who makes the investment AND a following of consumers. Once the other manufacturers see it work, most if not all will change.

Keep hoping!!!

[ksaltman]

Vaughn I fully support that idea.

Just hope the right people high enough in the RW/Crossroad's management hear this and decide it is worth while to follow through and do it.

[DLRAKOWITZ]

Yeah but the bottom line is money. A dealer has to resell that unit for a markup at what they get it from builder. To hit the sweet spot for dealer, builder has to cut all corners as you can see what is happening

[DLRAKOWITZ]

The one company that was way ahead of its time and built a pretty solid unit was carriage, and like them money was the issue trying to keep up QC and compete against the larger industries Redwood got my vote based on floor plans and amenities over the other brands of the same price range

[rob_fla]

Again, I think the Redwood product is a good product at its price point.

As we have completed our first week, other than minor trim / fit finish items, all major systems have preformed as they should, no plumbing leaks and no roof leaks from a couple of heavy / blowing rains we have had.

Still learning some of the new systems and appliances on our new unit but all is going well as we get comfortable in our new home on wheels.

One more week at our homebase, then we travel about 350 miles to our next destination.

[Oriana]

Congratulations on a successful first week, enjoy the new coach

[rcflame]

Carriage did build a good unit. We had a 2006 Carri-lite until we traded for the Redwood. Didn't have any major problems with it, but if you read the Carriage forum you would see complaints just like on the Redwood Forum. It seems like all mfg's have problems. It is human nature to complain about the bad more than brag about the good. In the 2 years we have lived full time in our 36Rl, just minor issues.

[DLRAKOWITZ]

I absolutely agree. I had a 2006 carriage as well and I traded mine in for a redwood as well. But the difference from there is I still haven't been able to sleep one one in mine due to issues that my dealer wishes to take there sweet time on. Going on past two months now and looking at being close to 3 months when they expect to get all fixed but I heard it all and burned several hundred dollars on diesel going back and forth when they say it's fixed and we go thru another "walk thru" and still not fixed but bandaided up instead. So I don't want to bash on redwood but i should play the joker by now by showing this fake smile after going thru 2 plus months of this. And yes redwood is involved in this as well but still it's just comical from here. But I still live my redwood and yes it's brand new and yes gotta get the kinks out of it. So I guess keep smiling and keep paying the bill for it and yes don't sleep in it till it's ready.

[rcflame]

Sorry you've had problems. I don't know if we're just lucky or what. The Redwood is our 3rd new full time vehicle and we haven't had any major problems with any of them. Had a few problems with one of the holding tanks on the Carriage that they had to replace, and a few problems on the Montana Blue Sky that had to be serviced but otherwise I have taken care of them myself. So far nothing with the Redwood.

[DLRAKOWITZ]

Oh trust me I'm sorry for jumping off wall a bit but it's been a rocky ride so far. I am pleaded to hear that you had no problems with your redwood as I wished ours was going to be that lucky as well. 0 issues on our carriage and minor small issues I fixed myself on the other two bumper trailers As you see the photo below, that was the only day I got to pull my trailer from dealership and that was day one. Tomorrow I get to pick it up from Mobil rv techs place due to one ac fan motor out and circuit board on second ac. Then I get to drive back to dealership a couple hundred miles away and let them work on it once again. So you can kinda see I was happy as happy can be when I picket up my trailer and couldn't even stay one night in it due to Acs out and 91 degrees in trailer But keep fingers crossed August is our beginning of our vacation in our trailer and I have lost weight, sleep, hair for this to work out. We have done nothing but lost money since we signed our names to this trailer and I have prayed we can at least enjoy one day in it if not one full month in it since the first day in it was stripped away

[rcflame]

I wouldn't blame the ac problem on Redwood since it sounds like a Colman problem. Redwood builds the unit and installs all the other things that are quite often supplied by other companies. They are responsible for problems with their products even though Redwood is responsible for getting things done. I often go right to the supplier for some things.