36RL Kitchen/Dining Slides

[RCAircraft]

The two kitchen/dining slides started to give us problems today. The slides will operate for about three seconds then stop (in either direction). Releasing the slide switch for 15 seconds allows another three second operation. The pump is warm but not hot to the touch however there is an unusual odor in the battery/pump compartment.

Per posted circuit breaker wiring diagram the pump motor and front LED hitch lights are on the same breaker. Those two lights remain illuminated when the pump stops. The pump terminal voltage is at 13 plus volts.

Is there a thermal overload within the motor? Also, is the pump motor replaceable or does the entire slide/leveler pump assembly have to be replaced? Although the unit is about four years old the slides/leveler have been operated about 40 times. This on our 2013 RL.

Is there a contact phone number at Lippert's slide/leveler group?

[mhs4771]

You should have an "Auto Reset Circuit Breaker" in the large cable between the battery.batteries and the hydraulic pump. On our RL RW had installed the wrong breaker and we experienced the same problem. The breakers are mounted between the buss bars located either on the rear wall or on the right side of the battery compartment.
But you may want to double check all the connections on the pump, buss bar, and battery to ensure everything is tight. The smell could be a poor connection causing resistance in the circuit and heating up.

[RCAircraft]

Originally Posted by mhs4771

You should have an "Auto Reset Circuit Breaker" in the large cable between the battery.batteries and the hydraulic pump. On our RL RW had installed the wrong breaker and we experienced the same problem. The breakers are mounted between the buss bars located either on the rear wall or on the right side of the battery compartment.
But you may want to double check all the connections on the pump, buss bar, and battery to ensure everything is tight. The smell could be a poor connection causing resistance in the circuit and heating up.

Thank you for your most helpful suggestions. The two one year rated batteries were essentially dead and one of the 6 AWG pump motor leads was overheated. Replacing the two batteries and replacing the overheated pump motor lead did get the slides to work however the pump is operating at a high temperature. Looks like the pump assembly will need to be replaced. All the repairs and labor are north of $2,300. Hopefully the repairs will last another four years.

[RCAircraft]

Does anyone have the part number for the Lippert slide/leveling pump assembly for a 2013 36 RL? The labels on the assembly do clearly indicate a part number.

[r time soon]

Not sure of the part numbers. Look here:

Hydraulic Pumps and Power Units for RV Leveling Systems

Chris

[RCAircraft]

Originally Posted by r time soon

Not sure of the part numbers. Look here:

Hydraulic Pumps and Power Units for RV Leveling Systems

Chris

Thank you for the link. I could not find the pump assembly. Contacting Tierra for assistance.

[ted 95]

First verify all your connections are clean and solid. Even the negative connections. Also that the pump is grounded properly. Do you have a good amprobe or volt - amp tester or what a lot of people call a "clamp tester". something like this
https://www.zoro.com/extech-clamp-me...g&gclsrc=aw.ds
If you don't have one see if you can borrow one. Set it to amperage and clamp it over the positive lead going to the battery from the pump. Have some one push the switch for the motor and take a reading on the amperage. First surge and continuous. You will see the exact amps the pump is drawing. With this info you will know if the pump is being overworked. As on the pump it should be marked what it should draw in amperage with the batteries at full charge. As if the batteries are under say 10 volts it will need more amps to make up the difference. Also with this you can see if the breaker or thermal overload is too small. Do not change the protection unless you are told it is the wrong one. As if you put too high a rating compared to the wiring you could cause a short or fire.
Also with this info the tech at Lippert will be able to give you proper info as to what to do.

[RCAircraft]

Originally Posted by ted 95

First verify all your connections are clean and solid. Even the negative connections. Also that the pump is grounded properly. Do you have a good amprobe or volt - amp tester or what a lot of people call a "clamp tester". something like this
https://www.zoro.com/extech-clamp-me...g&gclsrc=aw.ds
If you don't have one see if you can borrow one. Set it to amperage and clamp it over the positive lead going to the battery from the pump. Have some one push the switch for the motor and take a reading on the amperage. First surge and continuous. You will see the exact amps the pump is drawing. With this info you will know if the pump is being overworked. As on the pump it should be marked what it should draw in amperage with the batteries at full charge. As if the batteries are under say 10 volts it will need more amps to make up the difference. Also with this you can see if the breaker or thermal overload is too small. Do not change the protection unless you are told it is the wrong one. As if you put too high a rating compared to the wiring you could cause a short or fire.
Also with this info the tech at Lippert will be able to give you proper info as to what to do.

Great suggestions. My clamp on ammeter was reading about 15 amperes with 12.5 VDC at the motor terminals. The ground tested good between the frame ground and the motor housing.The motor does not have a nameplate however the breaker is rated for 15 amps and did not trip. The motor or pump appear to be loading up. The two slides move freely and can be moved by hand. Per the tech working with Lippert the DC motor armature, rotor or brushes most likely are defective. Initially the voltage was below 10 VDC due to failing batteries. Those are replaced. A through hex nut tightening event was held as many electrical connections at the motor and directional controller were loose requiring one 6 AWG burned cable at the motor to be replaced. Now waiting on the pump assembly parts.

[ted 95]

If you speak to Lippert again ask what should be the average wattage draw. It is possible the loose connections is what caused the brushes to go and the high reading. I assume you are getting brushes and an armature or a whole new motor? I find it very close to have a 15a breaker with a 15a draw. I'm not sure what the safety leeway is for DC but usually you only load an AC breaker to 80% so a 15a breaker in your house will have a max load of 12a.

[RCAircraft]

Originally Posted by ted 95

If you speak to Lippert again ask what should be the average wattage draw. It is possible the loose connections is what caused the brushes to go and the high reading. I assume you are getting brushes and an armature or a whole new motor? I find it very close to have a 15a breaker with a 15a draw. I'm not sure what the safety leeway is for DC but usually you only load an AC breaker to 80% so a 15a breaker in your house will have a max load of 12a.

Lippert agrees that the amperage/voltage is within range and that the brushes or commutator most likely failed. They no longer make this model and are struggling to identify the correct replacement due to the change from a Thor Redwood and Crossroads Redwood.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by RCAircraft

Lippert agrees that the amperage/voltage is within range and that the brushes or commutator most likely failed. They no longer make this model and are struggling to identify the correct replacement due to the change from a Thor Redwood and Crossroads Redwood.

Interesting, I didn't know there was a difference with the change to Crossroads to the build of the Redwood

?

[mhs4771]

I don't know if this helps, but Redwood has, I think, always been a child of Crossroads/Thor, but built in it's own plant with it's own management. I believe that is still true today, they have just moved production to thier own building on the Crossroad Campus and with shared service facilities in a near by facility.

As for the Hydraulic pump, something is entirely wrong with some of those numbers. Under load the Hydraulic pump can draw in the area of 80 amps, thus the reason for the larger guage cable, which passes through a pair of 50 amp auto reset breakers, at least that was the setup on our 36RL. The current reading listed sound like the readings you would get at the thombreatta (sp), the reversing relay that switches the polarity on the pump motor to provide extension and retraction of slides and jacks.

[RCAircraft]

Lippert no longer makes the slide/leveling hydraulic pump system (PN 646822) for our 2013 36 RL. After nearly two days on the phone Lippert is building a new system for us (yes - they do not stock the latest design so this could be interesting) and of the latest design - new pump, manifold, reversing contactor and several more components our current system does not have. Cost? Too far North to say here. Hope the slides and auto leveler work after all this fuss. Should know in one week.

[travelin' texans]

Helped a fellow RWer (Rolly & Laurie) last year change his pump, it would trip braeaker after running a few seconds if he waited a moment it would start & trip breaker, as it turned out it had a 50amp breaker & should been 80 & moved a wire from the buss bar to the battery. Lippert said bad pump, $600 pump fixed with $30 breaker.

[RCAircraft]

Originally Posted by travelin' texans

Helped a fellow RWer (Rolly & Laurie) last year change his pump, it would trip braeaker after running a few seconds if he waited a moment it would start & trip breaker, as it turned out it had a 50amp breaker & should been 80 & moved a wire from the buss bar to the battery. Lippert said bad pump, $600 pump fixed with $30 breaker.

80 amp breaker is a consideration. My hesitation includes the wire gage is now 6 AWG and Lippert recommends 50 amps. Even 6 AWG wire could be marginal at 50 amps depending upon insulation type and ambient temperatures. I am hoping the newly designed pump assembly, they are building at the Lippert factory for us next week resolves the issue for a long time. It should as it cost double of what the original unit cost. In addition to the new pump design the hydraulic manifold, solenoid coils, Trombetta motor reversing contractor and "two canisters" (no idea what the canisters are for) are also of a new design. Should be interesting. The new design still uses the existing 6 AWG conductors and 50 A breaker. I would like to see the batteries and hydraulic pump assembly be 2 AWG which could reduce voltage drops and conductor heating. That wiring project would an interesting nice weather project!

[RCAircraft]

Originally Posted by travelin' texans

Helped a fellow RWer (Rolly & Laurie) last year change his pump, it would trip braeaker after running a few seconds if he waited a moment it would start & trip breaker, as it turned out it had a 50amp breaker & should been 80 & moved a wire from the buss bar to the battery. Lippert said bad pump, $600 pump fixed with $30 breaker.

Supporting your 80 A breaker experience I found on the Heartland RV site a Lippert tech note recommending 80 A breaker for the slide pump. This is the link: http://manuals.heartlandowners.org/m...ippert0058.pdf

The wiring size is left up to the RV designer.

[ted 95]

If you do change the wiring use a welding cable type wire. Or a cable with as many strands as possible. The more the amount of strands the less resistance from the cable. Also normally The cabtire jacket of a welding cable has a higher temperature rating.

[RCAircraft]

Originally Posted by ted 95

If you do change the wiring use a welding cable type wire. Or a cable with as many strands as possible. The more the amount of strands the less resistance from the cable. Also normally The cabtire jacket of a welding cable has a higher temperature rating.

Agree. Thanks.

[RCAircraft]

Originally Posted by ted 95

If you speak to Lippert again ask what should be the average wattage draw. It is possible the loose connections is what caused the brushes to go and the high reading. I assume you are getting brushes and an armature or a whole new motor? I find it very close to have a 15a breaker with a 15a draw. I'm not sure what the safety leeway is for DC but usually you only load an AC breaker to 80% so a 15a breaker in your house will have a max load of 12a.

Ted,
Lippert stated the motor is rated at 800 watts which is about 66.6 amps at 12 VDC. After adding much brighter lighting in the battery compartment I started checking voltages on each conductor in the motor circuit to locate where the voltage was dropping to the motor. Found two 6 AWG positive lead ring terminals incorrectly crimped at the circuit breaker assembly. They looked like they had been crimped with slip joint pliers. The conductors were sitting loose in the connectors. After corrections the voltage drop from the battery terminal to either side of the motor was about 1.5 VDC which I would expect with 6 AWG loaded to about 90 A. The motor appears to be damaged by fluid leaking past the pump seal. After a review with Lippert they are building a new system for our RW that is more robust including the reversing contactor, pump assembly and manifold. Should receive this Saturday. Hopefully this "improved" design works for a long time. I estimate we operated the slides a total of 100 cycles over four years. What killed the motor was the excess heat at the motor terminals (both loose) which caused the seal to leak. I should have been more attentive when inspecting connections in the battery compartment. Hard lesson and very expensive. I also checked the bedroom slide electric motor connections at the motor controller in the basement area. One power lead was sitting loose in the incorrectly crimped ring terminal. Corrected that and headed for a little jack.

[RCAircraft]

Well, after getting north of a couple of thousand dollars for the new Lippert hydraulic pump and leveling system and problems with the auto level and slide in/out function problems continuing the RV repair technician gave up (he is off my list). As I was going to be in Bremen, IN in a couple of days for a custom cabinet project in our Redwood I jury rigged the controls to get ready for the road and contacted Lippert whom is nearby Bremen. They will look at the system and let me know what corrective actions are required (aka - $$$). The bigger issue is when on the way to Bremen from the Kansas City area a rear road side tire blew damaging the Redwood side sheet metal and wheel trim. The Bremen shop is also doing those repairs along with the custom buffet. We tossed the Marathon's (with less than 2,000 miles on them and pressures checked every two hours) and put on Tow Max's (only tire available on a late Sunday afternoon). Those new 16" Tow Max's and wheels (with about 500 miles on them) will be replaced with new 17.5 inch wheels and G rated tires rated at 4,800 lbs/per tire) along with a TPMS system before leaving Bremen in a few weeks. Good grief - the furnace, hydraulic pump, leveling system, brakes, curb side gas regulator and tire problems for a rig with less than 3,000 miles. Parts and labor have exceeded 10% of the purchase price. Hope this is it for some time. Just remembered - most likely will need the shackle links and wet bolt kit for the suspension system. Rebuilding this Redwood from the ground up while stored 90% of the time in a covered storage facility!! I do love my Redwood, pain and all.