Electrical Protection

[almcc]

Originally Posted by Rick and Mindy

I have beenusing the Progressive since I purchased my Redwood. We are not fulltiming yet so we do some weekend camping in some State Parks and the only time it has shut me down was this past spring in Degray State Park in Arkansas. The voltage kept spiking high and the unit would shut me down. I contacted the park and their maintenance guy came out and checked it and said it was normal for the electric company to increase the voltage output to the park because when the campground is busy and all the A/Cs are going, more voltage is needed. He tried to tell me that it was my Progressive unit that was causing all my problems even though his meter showed the voltage variance. I then asked if he would take care of damages if I disconnected my Progressive since he was so sure it was the unit causing the problem. Of course his reply was "no way". Needless to say, I kept it connected and the unit would shut me off about 2 times per hour and this went on all night. I checked other pedestals to see if I could change sites but they were all doing the same thing. I probably won't ever go back there for that reason.

We also camp at Degray and use portable surge guards. We haven't experienced the problem you experienced but we stay there for a couple of days in November and March on our way from Canada to and back from California each winter, maybe the electrical utility bumps the voltage later in the spring when A/C units start to be needed. We have hit other state parks that have had power problems, however. Last year in Natchez Trace state park in Tennessee I plugged in the 50 amp surge guard and one of the two legs of the electrical service was dead, I had to switch the circuit breaker on the pedestal off and on a few times to get the other leg active. Without the guard I would have been scratching my head trying to figure out why only half of the 120V stuff in the Redwood was working!

[ShawnAZ10]

Originally Posted by mhs4771

We've had the Progressive Hardwired unit with remote display in both of our RWs. Had a portable prior, but was worried we might forget it or it might develop feet and walk away.

Did you hardwire it in yourself? Was wondering if it was very difficult, I can see the transfer switch in the front battery compartment I figure you would connect into one of those lines. I can't seem to find any wiring schematics to determine which is the in and out. I'll end up routing around, but was wondering if you had any info from your experience that could help. Thank you

[mhs4771]

I wired both myself. Not really hard, just a PITA getting the wires routed into the EMS through the Pickup Coils. Bought a 4 or 5 foot length of cable from Home Depot or Lowes. I preferred using a short length rather than cutting any of the existing cables. I thing once you pull the cover for the xfer switch it has a diagram showing Gen In, Shore In, and Power out.

[ShawnAZ10]

Originally Posted by mhs4771

I wired both myself. Not really hard, just a PITA getting the wires routed into the EMS through the Pickup Coils. Bought a 4 or 5 foot length of cable from Home Depot or Lowes. I preferred using a short length rather than cutting any of the existing cables. I thing once you pull the cover for the xfer switch it has a diagram showing Gen In, Shore In, and Power out.

lol, was scratching my head on the PITA, but I believe I'm clear on that now Good info, if I get into trouble, I know who to reach out to. Thank you so much!

[mhs4771]

It does get hard on the back, being hunched over working in the battery compartment, but end result is worth it.

[ShawnAZ10]

Thank you all for your input. I've been looking into various setups over last couple of weeks and decided to go with the progressive hard wired EMS first (Made in the USA and comes with lifetime warranty). If I find it shutting me down due to too many low voltage situations in the parks we go to, I'll add an Autoformer or Franks voltage booster (both Made in USA) later and I believe they both have built in surge protection to protect their devices so that takes away the argument of what to put in front of what. Either of these voltage boosters can work freely while staying protected in front of the electronic management system that will shut it down if below 104 volts. The outside voltage would have to be way down there to shut the Progressive EMS down with either booster in front.

The main alternative is TRC. The company has a simple surge protection, an electronic management system like Progressive (its ems is cheaper than Progressive but does not offer lifetime warranty and not made in usa like Progressive) and a voltage regulator. Be aware that if you are looking at their Surge Guard Voltage Regulator, from what I have read, despite its name, it doesn't have any surge protection at all (and TRC, for those of whom it matters, isn't made in usa, like Autoformer or Franks).

My buddy had his TRC Surge Guard Voltage Regulator fry on him. He thought there was surge protection built in it over the last few years he had it, but it smoked. Those systems are around $650, you would think they would have a simple surge protection built in.

Very confusing topic to dive into as there are actually three different systems: 1)simple surge protection, 2)an electronic management system that shuts your electrical down if below or over specific voltage inputs and 3)a voltage regulator that boosts voltage going into your coach if voltage gets too low where it can damage your electrical equipment in your home.

I am no expert, if anything I have written is refutable please correct me as I'm still learning. Thank you all again for your help, and sorry about the length of this post!

[atom ant]

Shawn,

Check your directions on the Progressive before you start. They were actually printed showing mounting of the unit upside down (they apologized so I hope they fixed it). I got it all in ready to put the cover on and realized it was all backwards and had to take it back out and redo (third picture shows upside down). I had enough of the cable from the transfer switch I could install it above the generator shield.

The black backing plate I used to bridge the studs was just one of the two knockouts from my generator cabinet.

I didn't get the remote display and wished I would have - as its fun to watch the display.

I had to get a short piece of cable to run from the output of the suppressor to the input on the transfer switch. I pulled the original input to the transfer switch and ran it to the surge suppressor. I don't remember the wire size, but I matched what Redwood used. The cable over the top of the suppressor running into the transfer switch actually comes from my generator.

Also, the surge suppressor should be installed between the shore line and transfer switch, not after the the transfer switch. That keeps it completely out of the generator circuit. The surge can cause fits with some generators, and Onan recommends not having it downstream of their output.

[ShawnAZ10]

Originally Posted by atom ant

Shawn,

Check your directions on the Progressive before you start. They were actually printed showing mounting of the unit upside down (they apologized so I hope they fixed it). I got it all in ready to put the cover on and realized it was all backwards and had to take it back out and redo (third picture shows upside down). I had enough of the cable from the transfer switch I could install it above the generator shield.

The black backing plate I used to bridge the studs was just one of the two knockouts from my generator cabinet.

I didn't get the remote display and wished I would have - as its fun to watch the display.

I had to get a short piece of cable to run from the output of the suppressor to the input on the transfer switch. I pulled the original input to the transfer switch and ran it to the surge suppressor. I don't remember the wire size, but I matched what Redwood used. The cable over the top of the suppressor running into the transfer switch actually comes from my generator.

Also, the surge suppressor should be installed between the shore line and transfer switch, not after the the transfer switch. That keeps it completely out of the generator circuit. The surge can cause fits with some generators, and Onan recommends not having it downstream of their output.

Great pics! That helps a bunch in putting it together in my mind. Ordered the EMS yesterday. Looking forward to the install and the peace of mind knowing that it's protecting everything. Thank you, I feel much more confident that it'll all come together now.

[atom ant]

Originally Posted by ShawnAZ10

Great pics! That helps a bunch in putting it together in my mind. Ordered the EMS yesterday. Looking forward to the install and the peace of mind knowing that it's protecting everything. Thank you, I feel much more confident that it'll all come together now.

No problem! My wife calls that area my man cave At one point she couldn't find me as I was completely inside the cabinet with my legs up on top of the batteries. I just glad she didn't shut to cabinet door

[ShawnAZ10]

Originally Posted by atom ant

No problem! My wife calls that area my man cave At one point she couldn't find me as I was completely inside the cabinet with my legs up on top of the batteries. I just glad she didn't shut to cabinet door

I can see that! There's definitely a bit of contortion required. I'll be sure to lock out tag out before crawling in. lol

[ShawnAZ10]

Originally Posted by atom ant

Shawn,

Check your directions on the Progressive before you start. They were actually printed showing mounting of the unit upside down (they apologized so I hope they fixed it). I got it all in ready to put the cover on and realized it was all backwards and had to take it back out and redo (third picture shows upside down). I had enough of the cable from the transfer switch I could install it above the generator shield.

Atom Ant,
In picture five, you are running the incoming shore line directly into ems, exiting ems and coming up into the center position for shore line in the transfer box, right? I see that the load line you just redirected up above ems and now entering into the side of the transfer box (as opposed to coming in to the original position from bottom right) presumably to reconnect to the far right in the transfer back to the load position. It looks 'cleaner,' I'm guessing that's why you ran that route with the load line.

[atom ant]

Mostly correct - I marked it in red below. Also attached is the T57 transfer switch manual if you need it.

Originally Posted by ShawnAZ10

Atom Ant,
In picture five, you are running the incoming shore line directly into ems, Correct - I removed it from the transfer switch center "shore line" knockout and ran it into the input (left) side of the EMS, exiting ems and coming up into the center position for shore line in the transfer box Correct - it exits the EMS output on the right and goes back into the center knockout on the transfer switch "shore line" , right?

I see that the load line you just redirected up above ems and now entering into the side of the transfer box (as opposed to coming in to the original position from bottom right) presumably to reconnect to the far right in the transfer back to the load position. It looks 'cleaner,' I'm guessing that's why you ran that route with the load line Not correct - I never had to change the load line at all - it stayed in its original spot on the transfer switch. What you are seeing over the top of the EMS coming into the transfer switch on the side is the new cable run for the generator input to the transfer switch left set of lugs. I installed the generator and EMS at the same time, which might explain that additional cable that wasn't originally there in the first pictures..

Hope that helps! Ask anytime or you can PM if you wish.

[RomanyLife]

and just for safety, triple check those connections! Our installers didn't tighten properly and it caught fire and melted everything and we had NO POWER for over a week. RightyTighty!

[atom ant]

Yes definitely!

Pretty much as soon as you buy an RV, take the time to go through the electrical panel and grounding bars, and transfer switch and just start checking lugs. Fireplaces are bad too for lose terminals. Then follow with the water connections.... makes for happy camper later!

[ShawnAZ10]

Thank you Atom Ant for your step by step help! I installed it today and the only reservation I have is that I followed the Progressive advice in always using 10 gauge. I read that and installed it but saw on the transfer switch it said 6 gauge. A knowledgeable friend of mine said even 10 gauge may be overkill for what we're running. I don't know, but I'm grateful for your help. I used the knock out like you did and all I still have to figure out is how to run the data wire from the basement into the front compartment. You rock, thanks!

[ShawnAZ10]

Originally Posted by mhs4771

I wired both myself. Not really hard, just a PITA getting the wires routed into the EMS through the Pickup Coils. Bought a 4 or 5 foot length of cable from Home Depot or Lowes. I preferred using a short length rather than cutting any of the existing cables. I thing once you pull the cover for the xfer switch it has a diagram showing Gen In, Shore In, and Power out.

Finally installed, and you were so right on the PITA part! Wow, I was drenched today installing it. When you bought a new section of wire (I did the same thing) did you buy 10 gauge or 6? Progressive said always use 10 gauge (that's what I bought) but transfer switch called out 6 gauge. I installed the 10, I believe I'm good, but just checking in.

[Jim & Mary]

#6 is the correct wire size for a 50A service. I used 6/3 non metallic cable for mine (don't have the onboard generator).

[mhs4771]

10 Guage is a little on the small size for 50 amps, 10 is generally used on 30 amp circuits. Are you sure you were reading their instructions correctly. I thing they talk about using 10 for ground wires, but I wouldn't use 10 on the main feed.
We've had enough things running in ours to be pushing 40 amps on one leg.

[ShawnAZ10]

Originally Posted by mhs4771

10 Guage is a little on the small size for 50 amps, 10 is generally used on 30 amp circuits. Are you sure you were reading their instructions correctly. I thing they talk about using 10 for ground wires, but I wouldn't use 10 on the main feed.
We've had enough things running in ours to be pushing 40 amps on one leg.

I've gone back to reread them and it just says "in addition to ems kit you will need : ...Always use #10 wire. Its in the attached picture in bold print near the top. I'll give Progressive a call today ...will probably swap out anyway, it was so much fun the first time

[atom ant]

I matched what Redwood used for wire - but I just don't remember the size. I would probably replace your #10. It's odd they say ALWAYS use #10 when the directions are for both a 30A and 50A at the top, which would definitely use different wire.

You should be able to cross the ceiling in the basement with your data wire. Once you get behind the basement wall you have a lot of options on where to install the readout.