If RAIN is forecast, PULL IN your AWNING!

[Campers]

Careful using stainless steel on alum. There is a thing called galvanic corrosion, SMS and alum do not mix. Make sure you use a Teflon washer

[TNTBaker]

THAT is a 1 1/2 inch lag bolt?!

[ksaltman]

I was told to use a 1" to 1 1/4" so it doesn't go through the inside wall. At most a 1 1/2" but that could go through the inside wall.

The picture is I think a 1" but is an example of what type of bolt should be used and the head does match in size and shape what mine is attached with.

[TNTBaker]

I guess my question is: Did they tell you that the screw in the picture you provided was the correct screw? Because that is not a lag bolt, and it is definitely not even 1 inch long. That is a self-tapping screw, and the pointed, sharp end is not part of it's "length" or it's fastening ability. It is simply a "drill" It does NOTHING to hold the awing on the side of your trailer. You have about 1/2" of threads there, and they are very small threads with little fastening ability. They are for vertical hanging strength, NOT for pulling and holding, which is exactly the kind of stress that awnings exert. They pull OUT from the trailer, not DOWN. Watch what happens when a gust of wind blows your awning upwards... The TOP of the arms that connect to the trailer yank straight outward. Those fasteners must be able to grab that sidewall with some holding power.

I think you might well have the answer, when you said that they put temporary screws in to get the awning hung and then later install the lag bolts, then sometimes it doesn't get done. I can see how that could happen. But that screw in your picture is NOT enough to hold that awning on the trailer, and the Carefree manual outlines this.

[atom ant]

Originally Posted by ksaltman

So I talked with the tech today about the Carefree audit and he did say the guy wanted to see what screws they used so they took one out and showed him. Ours has a 1 1/4" lag bolt. Image attached as an example.

One thought about having really short screws is that there is basically 1 person at the factory who installs the awnings but he is helped by a 2nd to attach it first with just a couple small screws. The 2nd guy helps long enough for it to be put in place and then the 1st guy finished up the install with all the other screws etc etc.

It could be that the small screws never got replaced after the awning was initially mounted. Hard to say, but it was a theory.....

Here's the sample bolt next to my key so you can see the size.

Attachment 442

Too short - and it shouldn't be a self drilling. The length includes the drill head which has absolutely no fastening value once the hole is made. In reality that is closer to a 3/4 lag.

The lags I installed correct mine were twice that length, and no drill head. No issues with penetrating the inside wall. Mine probably hit about right in the middle of the 2" stud wall. Total wall thickness is closer to 2-1/2" - 3"

[lwg]

Funny thing is I bet if everyone on this forum checked their awning bolts they would be the exact same thing. I don't think they were temporary to ease installation, I it's just how Redwood does it.

One thing I've noticed with RV's. There's only a handful of different fasteners used on these things. For just about anything going through metal they'll use the screws shown. Pull down your underbelly and take a look at those screws. Yep, same thing as the awning.

[TNTBaker]

I sure hope it's not a production efficiency issue: Not wanting to take the time to predrill for a lag bolt... That would be terrible. I can see where doing a bunch of pre-drilling would slow things down some. Bottom line is that little teeny screw is not sufficient to hold that awning, period.

[ksaltman]

Ok I'm not total understanding this or maybe I am.

I agree that the sample lag bolt is too short, it was just a sample after all. The Carefree install manual available here, page 6 and 7 says to use a 1 1/2" lag bolt provided and pre-drill using a 5/32" bit. Using a 1 1/2" - 1 3/4" self tapper does the same thing as pre-drilling and using the 1 1/2" lag bolt.

I have found actually using self taping bolts/screws can in fact be better since they do the drill and fasten in 1 step rather than 2, but that is just my opinion.

Anyway, the other thing to think about is that the studs in the RW are actually just hollow aluminum tubes, not like a solid wood 2x4 you'd find in a house. Once the fastener is through the outer siding and into the stud, any longer just goes into air.

See also btw the component list in the install manual on page 2.

Then again given my recent a/c issues I don't know what to believe anymore.....

[brenkco]

Ken,
I see what you are saying and agree. It seems the problem would exist if they miss the aluminum studs and only hit the fiberglass.

Ken

[atom ant]

These awnings are installed into the siding, there is no intent or value to hit a stud. The bolts are anchored into the wood paneling directly behind the gelcoat, and a self drilling lag is worthless into anything other than steel because of the size if the drill head. Wood requires a much smaller diameter pilot than say the steel I beam frame would require to drive that lag into. These bolts are pulling out of the hole because they are simply the wrong hardware for the application.

[Elliott & Vicky]

A machine screw needs only to be long enough to have the threads on the full-diameter screw shaft through the material it is fastening. Any additional length is a waste.

After years of working on the ocean, I coat the threads with 3M 5200, which seals them an makes them difficult to remove.

[travelin' texans]

I agree, there's only 1/2" plywood behind the fiberglass, after that styrofoam which is not going to hold much.

[TNTBaker]

UPDATE: Our awning was repaired and re-installed at our service appointment, and covered under warranty. The technician installed mollys on the new arms and said that it was necessary because there is NOTHING behind the fiberglass for a screw to grab on to. He concurred (and was surprised) that the screws used should NOT have been used and said they were severely inadequate. He worked many years for Fleetwood building RVs on a line and shared stories of how things went in these plants. He said they have buckets of bolts and fasteners they use, and it was often laziness that caused them to use whatever was to hand if a bucket ran dry. Not saying that's what happened here, but he thinks it looks suspicious. He said the way it was installed it was no surprise that it fell off. He said it was absolutely wrong to use self-tappers because the drill at the head of the screw makes too big of a hole rendering the screw threads ineffective in fiberglass. Again, if you have only self-tapping screws in your awnings, it's probably the very sticky 3M tape holding them on, NOT the screws! I would make a trip to home depot and get some mollys and shoot them in there. Just my opinion.

[ksaltman]

Sure hope that info gets back to Redwood.

In other news our awning over one of the back slides broke the other day. One of the end caps cracked and when I removed it as instructed by coach.net the spring inside the awning unraveled.

We are on the way back home now and hope to get it fixed/replaced before we leave again.

Glad yours finally worked out.

[TNTBaker]

AW SHOOT ksaltman! That stinks. We had that happen on our truck camper awning, what a PAIN. Definitely have it repaired. Good luck!