Question Regarding $ kwh charges

[atom ant]

Originally Posted by spindrift

Ah, thanks for adding Watts Law to your post.


So Shane, are you saying a 20W 12V bulb puts a 0.18A load on the 110V side of the converter?

[Shane Wood]

No it will be on the load or 12v side
Once all these little amps add up to 1000w your invertor will be maxed out. All load is seen by the electric meter whether 12v or 120v

[atom ant]

Originally Posted by Shane Wood

All load is seen by the electric meter whether 12v or 120v

That's my point - how do you calculate the 12 volt load on the meter?

[Shane Wood]

Atom
All that your invertor is is a small step down transformer. The 12v light wattages all add up to the kilowatts used.the invertor battery charger etc all have an amperage draw on the 120v feeding it.the reason for 12v lighting is there is Less amperage use thus lower power bill.
clear as mud?

[spindrift]

Originally Posted by atom ant

That's my point - how do you calculate the 12 volt load on the meter?

You're not calculating the 12V load, per se. You're calculating, among other things, the load demanded by the inverter. You're 12V load is being supplied by the batteries, which in turn are being charged by the inverter charger.

[atom ant]

Originally Posted by spindrift

You're not calculating the 12V load, per se. You're calculating, among other things, the load demanded by the inverter. You're 12V load is being supplied by the batteries, which in turn are being charged by the inverter charger.

No it's a Converter, not an Inverter, and it provides a 90A 12V power supply in addition to the battery charger. Your 12V appliances don't pull from the batteries, in fact you don't need batteries installed to use your 12V when plugged in.

[Shane Wood]

If you have all the answers why ask us?

[atom ant]

Originally Posted by Shane Wood

Atom
All that your invertor is is a small step down transformer. The 12v light wattages all add up to the kilowatts used.the invertor battery charger etc all have an amperage draw on the 120v feeding it.the reason for 12v lighting is there is Less amperage use thus lower power bill.
clear as mud?

Ok - I guess nobody actually knows. The Converter draws up to 17A on the 110V side. All I wanted to know is whether that is a constant 17A or if it is based on the actual 12V load through the power supply. In other words does it draw 17A when the batteries are fully charged and the lights are all off, or does it draw closer to 3 or 4 amps?

Where I'm going, if the Converter draws a continuous 17A regardless of the 12V load (lights off or on) it is in fact very INEFFICIENT and it would benefit a long timer to pull the fuses for the converter, disconnect batteries, and just run 110V lighting to save on the meter bill.

[atom ant]

Originally Posted by Shane Wood

If you have all the answers why ask us?

I don't have the answers Shane - I was hoping you did. I'm not jerking you around, I'm curious how the converter works.

[coloradolivin]

Ok, I'm am starting to get the "sweats"!! This really sounds like a really, really bad physics class from the 80's that I failed miserably and ended up smashing my calculator on the steps and swore I would never need physics ever !!!

[atom ant]

Originally Posted by coloradolivin

Ok, I'm am starting to get the "sweats"!! This really sounds like a really, really bad physics class from the 80's that I failed miserably and ended up smashing my calculator on the steps and swore I would never need physics ever !!!

hahaha! same here. Whiskey time for me and in a few minutes the only "resistance" I'll worry about is the torque to spin the cap on the JD.

[coloradolivin]

Originally Posted by atom ant

hahaha! same here. Whiskey time for me and in a few minutes the only "resistance" I'll worry about is the torque to spin the cap on the JD.

Cheers to you guys !! And, Cheers to Jim Lazzarino !

[mhs4771]

I'll just add this note: If there were no batteries involved and you were running all your 12V loads strickly from the Converter is would be easier to calulate once the loss factor was included as the converter is not 100%, but since we have anywhere from 1 to 4 or 6 batteries it becomes almost impossible to get an accurate reading. Most of the current draw will be from the batteries until their level drops and the converter kicks into a higher output mode.
Now if you've converted all Lights to LEDs their draw is small and the converter should just about never leave Float mode.

[travelin' texans]

My solution would be wait the end of the month, get bill, pay bill, adjust usage if necessary, set back & enjoy life.

[mhs4771]

That's sort of the way we look at it. We try and conserve when and where we can, but it is what it is.

[mesg]

Originally Posted by atom ant

Where I'm going, if the Converter draws a continuous 17A regardless of the 12V load (lights off or on) it is in fact very INEFFICIENT and it would benefit a long timer to pull the fuses for the converter, disconnect batteries, and just run 110V lighting to save on the meter bill.

may i make a suggestion??? a small investment should totally eliminate the electricity (park cost).. for most of your weekly activities.. fulltime or snow birding..

I suggest 2 to 4 125 watt solar units.. and small 500 kwt roof mounted (VAWT---Vertical Axix Wind Turbine)generator or anchored ground unit.. and a GRID TIED INVERTER..!!!! easy to build your own... (you tube it).. if your fulltiming .. it will more than pay for itself...

This is my current winter project for the house and our 36fl..

And for those who want to monitor their energy consumption accuratly.. I suggest (the owl) http://www.theowl.com/ .. and a few (killawatt) http://www.p3international.com/products/P4400.html units.. both are deadly accurate.. and can help find those phantom loads..

[lwg]

Originally Posted by atom ant

Ok - I guess nobody actually knows. The Converter draws up to 17A on the 110V side. All I wanted to know is whether that is a constant 17A or if it is based on the actual 12V load through the power supply. In other words does it draw 17A when the batteries are fully charged and the lights are all off, or does it draw closer to 3 or 4 amps?

Where I'm going, if the Converter draws a continuous 17A regardless of the 12V load (lights off or on) it is in fact very INEFFICIENT and it would benefit a long timer to pull the fuses for the converter, disconnect batteries, and just run 110V lighting to save on the meter bill.

I can tell you with certainty that the converter doesn't pull that amount of power with no load. I have the Progressive Industries surge protector with remote display installed and am a bit of a fanatic in watching how much power various devices pull. If I recall its about 1 Amp total pull with no load, might actually be less but that's the smallest increment the display shows.

I'm guessing a quick call to the manufacturer tech department or consulting the manual would clear this up.

BTW, watts is watts. It's a universal metric of power regardless of voltage, hence many devices use this metric for power output.

[spindrift]

Originally Posted by atom ant

No it's a Converter, not an Inverter, and it provides a 90A 12V power supply in addition to the battery charger. Your 12V appliances don't pull from the batteries, in fact you don't need batteries installed to use your 12V when plugged in.

Tomatoe, tomahtoe....j/k....don't know why I always make that mistake.
However, I have a WFCO 100A Power Converter with an integrated battery charger. The converter has constant power, and as I understand it, as long as I'm connected to shore power, the DC load is going through the converter. Therefore, the load at the meter represents all existing AC loads and converted DC loads.

[hoosierguy]

Originally Posted by travelin' texans

My solution would be wait the end of the month, get bill, pay bill, adjust usage if necessary, set back & enjoy life.

"Atta boy" Danny!

[almcc]

You guys are working way too hard to get answers that may or may not be close to the KWH used! Some of the variables (just for the convertor) are : amps going into the batts, how many LED or halogens are running, draw of the CO detector, phantom draws for the leveling system etc etc. Going to the 110 side, how much is the A/C running, did the clothes dryer run for 60 or 70 minutes and how many loads were dried etc etc.

Sit back, have a liquid refreshment and read the meter for a couple of days to get an approximate usage then extend that estimate for a month.