Internal Brake Controller again

xtasee · 06-18-2017, 05:41 PM

I purchased a new 2017 Silverado 3500 with the internal brake controller and factory puck system including factory wiring.

According to the GM owners manual for 2017, the brake controller is compatible with "most" systems including electric over hydraulic. I have the Redwood factory disc brakes on the trailer and it came with a Carlisle pump and Cam module. Works great on the 2010 truck.

I get the "Check Trailer Wiring" message and no brakes. The truck works fine with electric drum brakes.

I talked to Ron yesterday who spent a ton of time with me (what a nice guy) and he said the cam module needs to be out of the system. This makes sense since the new GM systems are supposed to be compatible with both types of brakes. I also took the truck to the dealership where it set a code but the documentation points to a trailer issue....

I am sure there is someone here who owns a new 2017 GM with Disc brakes. if so, did you have to do something special to make the system work?

I am unable to move the trailer and tech support folks do not work the weekends. Very frustrating...

For you who understand the system, I get the approx 1v on the blue wire but I believe that the controller is looking for a compatible system connected before it will send more voltage with moving the manual switch. Therefore I get no "extra" voltage down the blue wire when sliding the switch.

Rick and Mindy · 06-18-2017, 09:10 PM

I may be wrong, but it seems to me not too long ago this issue came up and it seems like they found out that you had to have the transmission in drive before the internal controller worked properly or you had to be moving. It seemed weird to me but apparently that's how it works. Did you try moving the rig? Do you have the computer set to electric over hydraulic?

boatguy · 06-18-2017, 10:20 PM

Hi. I just purchased a new 2018 39MB. I also purchased a new 3500 HD Denali edition. It came equipped with the factory gooseneck package, pucks and an in bed 7 pin. I used the bumper 7 pin to pull my 20 foot snowmobile trailer and it worked flawlessly on the electric brakes twice then kicked up a "trailer wiring problem" on the DIC. Before going to pick up my Redwood last week I took it to the GM dealer who tested it and replaced the bed plug which I had never used. They said it was dead. Fast forward to Friday, I brought the Redwood home from the dealership, about an hour drive. I am a fifth wheel virgin but have towed plenty of boats and snowmobiles up to 40 feet. All had electric brakes. I spent the whole trip home trying to adjust the gain on the internal brake controller. Basically if I activated the brake at all a millisecond delay and the hydraulics on the trailer activated locking or almost locking up every time. Changing the gain only adjusted when it would lock up. Nothing seemed to change the amount of brake applied to the trailer. Its either full on or full off. I spoke to the trailer dealer because I know the driver who picked it up in Indiana and drove it here could not have made it without noticing. I'm stuck thinking it must be something in my truck. I am going to take it back and have the dealer check it out late next week but in the meantime I have a few things I want to try. I will try and pull it off the bumper plug instead of the bed plug and see if that makes a different. I have a 12 volt mechanic that specializes in all things 12 volt who is going to put a test plug in and check voltage to make sure that when I brake its sending out variable voltage. After that I will hit the dealership to find out.

Im just settling in to a Fathers Day afternoon of reading my new truck manuals and see if I can uncover anything. If it helps pulling was a breeze its just slowing down that I didn't like.

boatguy · 06-18-2017, 10:51 PM

Well the owners manual for the truck didn't shed any light. There was no info on changing anything for hydraulic or electric. I went back through some great posts and I may need something called a Cam. Like I said earlier gain from 9.0 to 1.5 and the trailer brakes react the same (either lock up or nearly lock up). I'm desperately hoping either Titan Guy or MHS4771 chime in. I should mention its a factory installed Hydrastar actuator and my Denali does show trailer connected.

Thanks for any help

xtasee · 06-19-2017, 12:35 AM

Boatguy,

Mine is also the factory hydrastar and has the error message. Yours shows "trailer connected"? Ron says the Cam should not be in the system for the new truck...

xtasee · 06-19-2017, 12:38 AM

Rick,

I think the moving truck issue is related to the brake pedal not the manual override on the controller. Also should get "trailer connected" message and a colored gain gauge on the DIC.

I am not aware of a setting to program on GM for the type of brake.

boatguy · 06-19-2017, 01:38 AM

Yes. I do get trailer connected. I also get the gain display. The issue for me is whether the gain is at 2 or 9. Pressing the pedal engages the brakes at maximum or near maximum. If I apply the brakes even lightly for three seconds with the gain at anything greater than 0 it will stop the vehicle abruptly. Electric brakes let me use the gain to match the stopping power of the trailer with the truck, adjusting for weight.

xtasee · 06-19-2017, 02:23 AM

You are further ahead than me. I just spent another 2 hrs after the several hours yesterday and still get "Check Trailer Wiring". I have the HBA-16 pump and a HBA-CAM. I have tried it both with the CAM hooked up and disconnected.

Your issue sounds like the gain is not correct in the truck. Could be the brake module or the switch. The dealer may have to look at that one...

**piper guy** · 06-19-2017, 09:32 PM

I hate to say this ............. but I'm really liking my Ford. Seems to me GM has been dealing with this issue with Disc Brake controllers for a few years now.

And so that you know, I was a GM person for 40 years before my F350 Dually and probably would have remained one except both the GMC and Chevy dealer tried to steal my exceptionally nice '06 Denali. I think its really inexcusable that they can't make their factory controller compatible.

xtasee · 06-20-2017, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piper guy

I hate to say this ............. but I'm really liking my Ford. Seems to me GM has been dealing with this issue with Disc Brake controllers for a few years now.

And so that you know, I was a GM person for 40 years before my F350 Dually and probably would have remained one except both the GMC and Chevy dealer tried to steal my exceptionally nice '06 Denali. I think its really inexcusable that they can't make their factory controller compatible.

Vaughn,

I believe that I have found the issue and it appears to be Redwoods hacking together the wiring! GM's controller by sensing the wiring problem could have saved lives. Boo on me for not knowing that I had no break-away brakes either.

Seems that Redwood did not have a wire for the break-away switch separately run from the pin junction box so they just tied the yellow wire for the break-away to the blue wire for the controller. This was done at the factory at the brake module in the battery compartment.

I fixed the brake issue by separating the yellow and blue wires at the pump but now need to fish a wire from the junction box (hooked to the cold side of the break-away switch) down to the yellow wire on the brake pump module.

BTW GM's new internal controllers are now compatible with either electric or electric over hydraulic without the need for the CAM module. You are correct that the older ones had to be "tricked".

This should be a warranty issue not to mention the safety issue but it will be much faster for me to deal with it on my own.

On another subject, how many flight hours did you log last year?

MuddFlap · 06-20-2017, 01:23 AM

I got the Redwood factory disc brakes, hydrastar actuator with Kodiak brakes. Redwood also installed the hba-cam. My trailer brakes also hesitate for about 4-5 seconds then activate quite forcefully. I'm gonna bypass the hba-cam and see if there's any improvement.

mhs4771 · 06-20-2017, 01:27 AM

Maybe that's why the Amish light their homes with Gas Lamps, they're not good with electricity.
Any way, glad to hear it's not a GM problem as I really thinking hard about replacing my 2011 in the fall with a 2018.

atom ant · 06-20-2017, 02:58 AM

Our Redwood failed the brake test off the Dealer lot - nothing.... They started to blame the Ford but after driving away with my pickup to the airport and flying back home to Denver they called a week later and said Redwood had jacked the wiring up at the pinbox and it destroyed the Carlisle. It was Dealers lips moving, but we went back to get it and hooked up the Ford and they worked perfectly so I'm inclined to believe them.

boatguy · 06-20-2017, 04:05 AM

So the brake saga continues... MuddFlap it would appear as though we have the same problem. Today I called Hydrator and spoke to Tye. He confirmed that it was not supposed to act this way. The gain reading on my truck should increase as I lean on the brake, and it is not. We confirmed I have an HBA CAM installed. Confirmed again that when it was delivered by a Dodge from Indiana to Ontario the brakes operated as expected. Tomorrow morning we begin by checking voltages from the pin adapter, will also hook up and pull the 20' snowmobile trailer to confirm that my controller is working. Then I suppose we will try and disconnect the HBA CAM. This is really all that is keeping me from enjoying the trailer.

BTW, the dealer has been very supportive and said bring it back and they would work on it but it really seems the be an issue between the trailer and my new GM.

**piper guy** · 06-20-2017, 02:38 PM

Larry - thanks for asking about the flying - I'm really not current anymore since selling the Arrow but the itch is occurring again.
I've been thinking of getting my tail dragger endorsement and up here in NY I have access to a Rans S7S (kind of an experimental Cub looking tandem high wing). Might be a fun thing to fly with the doors open and a cruise of 65 mph !!

xtasee · 06-20-2017, 03:09 PM

Update:

I was able to get everything sorted out last night without running another wire. Redwood had the wires screwed up both in the pin box and at the Hydrastar.

Thank you again Ron for sending me the wiring schematic!

MuddFlap · 06-20-2017, 03:39 PM

Ron or Larry, could I get a copy of that wiring diagram also please?
epdelay@yahoo.com

Thanks!

Grizzby · 06-20-2017, 03:57 PM

So disheartening that as owners we have to experience needless issues like this! Time, effort, and money wasted...not to mention the frustration involved. Wonder how the transporter delivered it to the dealership...no brakes? Did he/she mention it to anyone? Where's the pride, or even common sense, that goes with the job?

Bob

xtasee · 06-21-2017, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuddFlap

Ron or Larry, could I get a copy of that wiring diagram also please?
epdelay@yahoo.com

Thanks!

I forwarded the wiring diagram's to you.

MuddFlap · 06-22-2017, 05:14 AM

Thanks Larry!

I checked the wiring for the brake controller and everything appears to be installed correctly. I also called Hydrastar today and spoke to Tye. He said that I should hitch up the RV, have someone depress the TV brake pedal and listen for the actuator pump. If the pump starts immediately when the brake pedal is pressed then my issue is likely air in the brake lines. So tomorrow AM I'm gonna bleed the brakes and see what happens. Tye also said that for my truck it doesn't matter if the HBA-CAM is installed or not.

As a side note I picked up my truck from the dealership today and it just so happened that an RV transport person was dropping off their 2017 Ram 3500. I questioned the driver about towing RV's with disc brakes and she said that she has towed a number of them and never has had any kind of issue. So hopefully it's not the truck!

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